College Plans Next Year
Hey BX'ers, I am in the midst of figuring out how to pay for college. I feel very strongly that i will have a career in the coffee industry. My goal is to own a shop that roasts their own coffee, offering a wide selection of brewing methods. I am also interested in getting into wholesale roasting. Looking at the road ahead, I am beginning to see college as something that is delaying the start of my career, rather than facilitating it. The cost of student loans on top of the loans involved with starting a shop, seem like too much to take on. I value education. I love to learn. But i am finding it harder and harder to justify paying for a degree, that isn't a pre-requisite for my future career.
My current plans involve getting a BA with a major in business administration and a minor in political science. I often have the urge to scarp the expensive university and invest in classes at ABC and/or take business administration classes at a technical college.
Is a degree worth paying for just to have as a back up? Is it essential to the coffee trade? Would it be better to move out to Seattle and learn about the industry first hand? Should i try to get an internship somewhere like Sweet Marias?
Please help. I'm about to spend 20,000+ dollars.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Copper River Coffee and Tea on
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Copper River Coffee and Tea said:Copper River Coffee and Tea said:Hey Alex, I actually worked for free for an entire summer at a coffee shop between my junior and senior year at college. I proposed to them that in exchange for my services, that they would teach me what they knew. So, every day, for four to five hours a day I would sweep, dust plants, clean the toilet, stock shelves, eventually taking orders and eventually making drinks. This does not work for everyone, primarily because if you truly want to own a business you must learn to work for free. Of course, in college we privy ourselves to the idea that we are worth this for that amount of time, and not getting paid for your work is very foreign. This is why so many people fail, because they don't have the fortitude or have delayed gratification in order to pull it off. I would say keep going to school, get your degree (if nothing else, so that you're socially acceptable, because that's all it is anyways for the most part), and maybe consider working for free. Again, not for everyone, people like to complain and whine about not getting paid, but what you invest in, whether education or experience, will lead to more riches later on. -Scott p.s. I have a degree in English, and I also studied history and political science. :P
Alex Stoffregen said:THANK YOU EVERYONE! This really thread is getting me excited about school next year! This is just the reassurance I needed. I really enjoy education, and do think it would make me a better person overall, i was just worried about cost, and you all have assured me that you CAN do both! (pay for starting a business and going to school)
Next year i'm going to go all out, and take classes that interest me (physics, philosophy, business) and view it as an experience to make myself a more rounded person, rather than a means to get a degree.
I am staying in the area and will be able to keep my connections with local businesses, and will continue my coffee education in my free time. I will keep you all posted as to how things are going. I really appreciate the advice.
You guys are actually really helping me out in life, so...Thank you. BX is awesome.
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Permalink Reply by christopher myers on
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Know who else got to learn a lot about a specific trade without getting paid for their work? Slaves. I'm just sayin'.
Copper River Coffee and Tea said:Copper River Coffee and Tea said:Copper River Coffee and Tea said:Hey Alex, I actually worked for free for an entire summer at a coffee shop between my junior and senior year at college. I proposed to them that in exchange for my services, that they would teach me what they knew. So, every day, for four to five hours a day I would sweep, dust plants, clean the toilet, stock shelves, eventually taking orders and eventually making drinks. This does not work for everyone, primarily because if you truly want to own a business you must learn to work for free. Of course, in college we privy ourselves to the idea that we are worth this for that amount of time, and not getting paid for your work is very foreign. This is why so many people fail, because they don't have the fortitude or have delayed gratification in order to pull it off. I would say keep going to school, get your degree (if nothing else, so that you're socially acceptable, because that's all it is anyways for the most part), and maybe consider working for free. Again, not for everyone, people like to complain and whine about not getting paid, but what you invest in, whether education or experience, will lead to more riches later on. -Scott p.s. I have a degree in English, and I also studied history and political science. :P
Alex Stoffregen said:THANK YOU EVERYONE! This really thread is getting me excited about school next year! This is just the reassurance I needed. I really enjoy education, and do think it would make me a better person overall, i was just worried about cost, and you all have assured me that you CAN do both! (pay for starting a business and going to school)
Next year i'm going to go all out, and take classes that interest me (physics, philosophy, business) and view it as an experience to make myself a more rounded person, rather than a means to get a degree.
I am staying in the area and will be able to keep my connections with local businesses, and will continue my coffee education in my free time. I will keep you all posted as to how things are going. I really appreciate the advice.
You guys are actually really helping me out in life, so...Thank you. BX is awesome.
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Permalink Reply by Mike McGinness on
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Know who else got to learn a lot about a specific trade without getting paid for their work? Slaves. I'm just sayin'.
Bullshit, totally different. Slaves had no choice and received nothing but bare sustenance in return for labor.
A person choosing to perform work in exchange for receiving training is simply a form of bartering. And is analagous to being paid for work performed and then paying for training. As it happened the person (or company) paying for work performed and being paid to provide training are the same. AND in most cases the value of the training far exceeds the value of the manual untrained labor performed. Check the cost of a few days training at a reputable barista academy. Now calculate how many hours minimum wage manual labor would need to be performed to pay for just that. Let alone advanced training.
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Was meant to be joke-ish. I understand the difference between slavery and work-trade or apprenticeship. However, if you're working for free, that essentially means that you're paying the owner at least minimum wage + worker's comp +a percentage of social security tax. At 5 hours a day, 7 days a week, that's at least 300 dollars a week you're paying the owner (Ca min. wage.) So I just hope he got some goooood training, and I don't think that owner exactly deserves any awards. I just don't think that tactic is very viable for someone who has to pay rent. I guess I don't know the particulars of the situation, but it seems like getting a job anywhere that has a non auto espresso machine is preferable. Most Roasters I know of offer barista training to a cafe's employees for free. Even if the cafe sucks, you can practice your shots and drinks when the owner's not around, and learning what doesn't work in a cafe is equally valuable.
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Like I said, not for everyone. My situation was unique, I had the ability to do that. Not a lot of people would be able to. In exchange for doing simple things, I learned a lot about business plan writing, product development, market research, how utterly expensive everything is, taxes, picking a good location for your business, advertising, etc. etc. The whole works essentially. It was the type of stuff that also had the unique perspective only attained by actual experience that one would never be able to get from school. For doing some rather easy things, I learned a lot from the people who owned the shop and was able to glean from their experiences which has served me very well now that I have my own business. It was like an unpaid internship, which is common. However, in no way should your training defer practical expenses. If you can't work without being paid, then don't do it. If you have some money set aside and don't need that paycheck on a weekly basis, I think it's a great idea to invest your time in learning something new or trying something new. I wanted to know what it was like running a business, and particularly the costs of running a business. I got what I wanted.
christopher myers said:Was meant to be joke-ish. I understand the difference between slavery and work-trade or apprenticeship. However, if you're working for free, that essentially means that you're paying the owner at least minimum wage + worker's comp +a percentage of social security tax. At 5 hours a day, 7 days a week, that's at least 300 dollars a week you're paying the owner (Ca min. wage.) So I just hope he got some goooood training, and I don't think that owner exactly deserves any awards. I just don't think that tactic is very viable for someone who has to pay rent. I guess I don't know the particulars of the situation, but it seems like getting a job anywhere that has a non auto espresso machine is preferable. Most Roasters I know of offer barista training to a cafe's employees for free. Even if the cafe sucks, you can practice your shots and drinks when the owner's not around, and learning what doesn't work in a cafe is equally valuable.
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