Detailed Menus: Are they necessary?

Read this post by James Hoffman about Prufrock Coffee's menu board.

http://bit.ly/bmzKif

This raised some questions in my mind. Does simplifying the menu allow for better communication between barista and customer? Would a board like this work in stateside shops? Would we lose sales, or gain educational opportunities? In what ways would this separate the indie shops from the franchises, and how could we capitalize on that?

I have more questions, but let's start on these...

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Permalink Reply by Paul Yates on July 26, 2010 at 10:12am
That is where the "non-espresso" items would come into play. I think. Still forming this idea in my head...
Permalink Reply by Bryan Wray on July 26, 2010 at 12:14pm
At the same time, why have a menu at all if it's going to be as uninformative as the one shown? Why not have an optional printed menu if someone ::really:: needs it, but otherwise just engage them in conversation from the get go? It's almost as if the menu is there to make a statement, and unfortunately I feel it will be taken as a bad thing by most.

I'm a much bigger fan of listing the coffees available and then talking to the customer about which one you think will work best in the drink they are seeking out. If they are unsure of what drink they want, you start relating it to things they ARE familiar with... wine, beer, fruits, etc.

I know plenty of shops that share this concept.

-bry
Permalink Reply by Chris on July 26, 2010 at 12:55pm
There is a similar shop menu here in Tucson, and it seems to be going fairly well. This shop is nestled between two other shops, too. One is a roaster that provides sammiches and sweets, pastries and pasties, as well as every kind of coffee drink imaginable. The coffee is OK, though. The other is a chain, similar to the Green Monster and all that that entails.
The only real issue that I see with this kind of menu is that each individual is used to defining most of those terms without regard to anyone else' definition, and the least common denominator tends to be Starbucks.
Other than that, if I order a cappuccino and it's not over six ounces, I'm headed in the right direction.
Something tells me that Gwilym's place with James roasting is going to do the trick for me.
OYAH, this isn't really a coffee shop, either. It's sort of a stand located in a men's clothing store.
Permalink Reply by Hunt Slade on July 26, 2010 at 2:34pm
We haven't had a menu at all for the last two weeks - another in a long line of in-house experiments. What is described on the wall behind the bar is the coffee: farm name, region/city, origin, varietal, elevation if available, and three prime attributes in the cup. No loss in sales and higher customer-barista interaction. Of course, one must trust their head barista and staff explicitly to do anything like this, simple menu, abbreviated menu, or no menu. We won't keep it this way forever - just pulling some data.
Permalink Reply by Anthony Rue on July 26, 2010 at 3:13pm
Gwilym's menu looks about right for a limited space that is espresso-only. We've always only had five espresso drinks, each one size only. Because we have more room (and are in Florida), we also have a short cold-brewed iced coffee menu (black/milk/mocha, one size only), and between three and five single origin brewed coffees (one size only, variable pricing).

The only place where our menu gets a bit out of hand is with our teas. At any time, we'll have ~28 choices of seasonal tea offerings. Because we're running a slightly contemporary variation of gongfu tea service, the teas require their own menu with more in-depth descriptions.

-anthony
voltacoffee.com
Permalink Reply by Deferio on July 26, 2010 at 6:41pm
sometimes I think of even the simplest fine dining menu and compare it to these 5,6,7,9 item menus. We want to be compared to chefs but with espresso menus like these we certainly come off looking way more pretentious and also dare I say be perceived as being a bit lazy and un-creative( which I am sure is not true of those with these menus). I think that we, as baristas who have dealt with bad large menus, love this concept automatically because it gives us room to breath but fail to recognize that variety is not the enemy. Poor planning, poor quality, and lack of confident execution is the enemy. Lack of expertise and lack of APPROPRIATE creativity is the enemy. It is all in how you present yourself to the customer. Large is not always bad and small is not always good.
Permalink Reply by Bryan Wray on July 26, 2010 at 7:04pm
Deferio said:
Large is not always bad and small is not always good.

Well said as usual, Chris.

-bry
Permalink Reply by Terika on July 27, 2010 at 6:16pm
Although not exactly the same, there are a bunch of shops that only have about half a dozen drinks on their boards. Check out 9th Street Espresso in NYC or Madcap in Grand Rapids, MI to name a couple. Completely different contexts, but all successful.

Brady said:
OK, my far-flung friends. Besides the esteemed Mr. Wilson, who else is doing something like this? Nobody in my neck of the woods, for sure.
(Paging Dr. Caragay...) Hey Jay, what's Spro's menu look like these days?
Permalink Reply by Jay Caragay on July 27, 2010 at 6:28pm
I've pretty much stated my thoughts on the Prufrock menu concept on James' blog, so I won't reiterate that here.

Overall, I like the ideal of paring down a menu. Bring it to its essentials. That said, I also like a little description for the customer. From there, it's about engaging the people with friendly and passionate baristas with a focus on hospitality.

I'm including Spro Hampden's current menu.

Brady said:
(Paging Dr. Caragay...) Hey Jay, what's Spro's menu look like these days?
Attachments:
Permalink Reply by Deferio on July 27, 2010 at 6:49pm
beautiful menu, Jay...
and I also love your thoughts on James' blog.

Jay Caragay said:
I've pretty much stated my thoughts on the Prufrock menu concept on James' blog, so I won't reiterate that here.

Overall, I like the ideal of paring down a menu. Bring it to its essentials. That said, I also like a little description for the customer. From there, it's about engaging the people with friendly and passionate baristas with a focus on hospitality.

I'm including Spro Hampden's current menu.

Brady said:
(Paging Dr. Caragay...) Hey Jay, what's Spro's menu look like these days?
Permalink Reply by Mike McGinness on July 27, 2010 at 8:07pm
Deferio said:
We want to be compared to chefs but with espresso menus like these we certainly come off looking way more pretentious and also dare I say be perceived as being a bit lazy and un-creative( which I am sure is not true of those with these menus). I think that we, as baristas who have dealt with bad large menus, love this concept automatically because it gives us room to breath but fail to recognize that variety is not the enemy.

Poor planning, poor quality, and lack of confident execution is the enemy. Lack of expertise and lack of APPROPRIATE creativity is the enemy. It is all in how you present yourself to the customer. Large is not always bad and small is not always good.

Well said indeed.
Permalink Reply by Jesse Darwin on July 27, 2010 at 8:27pm
i love it. i think it will work stateside in the right places...I'm in Montana, and i plan to stay. most people stare blankly at the menu board just trying to pronounce the names of drinks. others come in and just know *bucks lingo. when i have a menu board of my own, it will look very similar

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