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Permalink Reply by Heath Henley on January 20, 2009 at 1:49pm

I've never heard anything about changing grind based on roast - but the proof is in the cup, so you could always try it and find out if it tastes better.

There is a standard for bed depth in the SCAA's Golden Cup Certification: 1-2 inches (dry). This is to keep the "dwell time" (the difference between the time it takes for water to run through without coffee vs. the time with coffee) to 45-90 seconds. So, theoretically, your dark roast, which has bigger volume from the start, could require different parameters. Grind could change the dwell time, but bed depth would be most effected by drop weight.

Ultimately you are looking for an extraction in the 18-22% range (testable with a TDS meter), and there are many ways to get there. Again, to go back to my original comment, see if it tastes better one way than the other. If the change isn't significant, I would keep things as standard as possible for ease when switching coffees.

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Permalink Reply by Joshua Longsdorf on January 20, 2009 at 2:43pm

I'm going to have to say that the answer is generally no if we are talking a brewing method other than espresso. Generally if you are weighing the coffee being brewed than you would use a slightly larger volume of dark being that it generally has a smaller mass. Of course that would be if we were talking same bean light vs. dark, every bean is going to be different which is why we use weight as opposed to volume in brewing. Heath's guidelines of 18-22% for extraction is the target you can safely get there using 60g (or slightly more or less depending on taste) of coffee for every liter of water. Although I do not want to discourage experimenting and again agree with in that you should try it out for your self. After teaching foundations to people I always tell them that all those rules I just gave you, throw them out and make the best cup of coffee you can. Sometimes we break rules to get there.

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Permalink Reply by Brady on January 20, 2009 at 3:31pm

This is definitely not over the top. Welcome home.

Regarding your question, I say perhaps. But the better question is should you be grinding the Lintong differently than the El Salvador? You certainly could just set it for drip and go... 9 out of 10 probably do. But if you are willing to invest the time to develop a more specific brew profile for each coffee you could certainly do better. Grind factors in to that, as do temperature and dose. It is just as valid (perhaps more valid) to ask if you should be brewing with different temperature water for dark roasts. As the p.p. have said, try a spectrum of temperatures, grinds, and doses for each coffee and pick the one that you feel best expresses the coffee.

How we doin'? Any better than CG? You haven't even gotten any of the core bXers yet.

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Permalink Reply by Aaron on January 20, 2009 at 4:49pm

I second the water temperature idea, as this is probably the biggest contributor, with dwell time and dose being next, to finding the optimum coffee extraction. I second, or third the idea though--the proof is in the cup!

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Permalink Reply by Bryan Wray on January 20, 2009 at 5:21pm

Definitely doing better than CG, Brady. On there I started getting the whole "well if you are grinding for French press you are going to want to grind coarser than for drip" blah blah blah and then I just stopped paying attention. Please don't fill me in on coffee 101 kind of a thing. Anywho... not my point on this post.
My point is that you guys are doing a fantastic job, these are the answers I was looking for. We already play around with dwell time and temps for our different coffees, and grind to an extent, but just wondered if there was a rule of thumb for dark vs. light. To be honest, I have a difficult time telling the difference (not with temp and dwell time, but with grind for sure) when I'm just running the coffee through a Bunn (no Clover here). Obviously if I grind way different from one to another then I can, but not small differences.
Thanks again, and if anybody else has insight, please be sure to post away!

-Bry

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Permalink Reply by Jason Haeger on January 20, 2009 at 5:46pm

Time for the non-traditional response. (mine)

But first, the standard mantra sung the world over: "It depends on the coffee"

From that subtle creed, this response emerges. (sort of)

Grind setting is directly proportional to the rate of extraction. The temperature of the brew water is directly related to what is extracted, interestingly enough, in addition to the extraction rate. (this is consistent with higher water temperatures matching lighter roasted coffee)

Moving on, the desired rate of extraction has much to do with how many "extractables" one desires to result in the cup, as well as how much of each extractable component.

That having been said, I would personally take a lighter roasted coffee to a finer grind as well as a higher temperature at a shorter amount of time. More surface area means more is extracted. Larger particles extract slower based in part because of decreased surface area, but it's not as simple as that. The reason is that there is simply less extractable matter exposed to the solvent (in this case, water).

I'm under the impression that a lighter roasted coffee just has "more to give", which is why I tend to prefer a finer grind normale double with them, and why I tend to updose darker roasts. (of course, roasting method has a lot to say about this as well.. I wouldn't normale an air-roasted coffee, normally.)

Of course, your mileage may vary, but this is my basic approach.

Welcome to bX, "That Coffee Guy".

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Permalink Reply by Bryan Wray on January 20, 2009 at 6:01pm

Fantastic comment. This helps clear up cobwebs in my brain. There were a lot of things floating around up there in my head and you finally put them into a more concentrated thought. These are definitely the kind of responses I am looking for, even if it is just someone's basic approach.

Thanks Jason

BTW, I've been around for a while, I just tend to go through months of great lurking before I start randomly blabbing about coffee again on these forums.

-Bry
Jason Haeger said:

Time for the non-traditional response. (mine)

But first, the standard mantra sung the world over: "It depends on the coffee"

From that subtle creed, this response emerges. (sort of)

Grind setting is directly proportional to the rate of extraction. The temperature of the brew water is directly related to what is extracted, interestingly enough, in addition to the extraction rate. (this is consistent with higher water temperatures matching lighter roasted coffee)

Moving on, the desired rate of extraction has much to do with how many "extractables" one desires to result in the cup, as well as how much of each extractable component.

That having been said, I would personally take a lighter roasted coffee to a finer grind as well as a higher temperature at a shorter amount of time. More surface area means more is extracted. Larger particles extract slower based in part because of decreased surface area, but it's not as simple as that. The reason is that there is simply less extractable matter exposed to the solvent (in this case, water).

I'm under the impression that a lighter roasted coffee just has "more to give", which is why I tend to prefer a finer grind normale double with them, and why I tend to updose darker roasts. (of course, roasting method has a lot to say about this as well.. I wouldn't normale an air-roasted coffee, normally.)

Of course, your mileage may vary, but this is my basic approach.

Welcome to bX, "That Coffee Guy".

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Permalink Reply by Jason Haeger on January 20, 2009 at 6:03pm

Well, I just noticed you here today, so it was my welcome, anyway. lol

Cool to see you around.

Bryan Wray said:

Fantastic comment. This helps clear up cobwebs in my brain. There were a lot of things floating around up there in my head and you finally put them into a more concentrated thought. These are definitely the kind of responses I am looking for, even if it is just someone's basic approach.

Thanks Jason

BTW, I've been around for a while, I just tend to go through months of great lurking before I start randomly blabbing about coffee again on these forums.

-Bry
Jason Haeger said:

Time for the non-traditional response. (mine)

But first, the standard mantra sung the world over: "It depends on the coffee"

From that subtle creed, this response emerges. (sort of)

Grind setting is directly proportional to the rate of extraction. The temperature of the brew water is directly related to what is extracted, interestingly enough, in addition to the extraction rate. (this is consistent with higher water temperatures matching lighter roasted coffee)

Moving on, the desired rate of extraction has much to do with how many "extractables" one desires to result in the cup, as well as how much of each extractable component.

That having been said, I would personally take a lighter roasted coffee to a finer grind as well as a higher temperature at a shorter amount of time. More surface area means more is extracted. Larger particles extract slower based in part because of decreased surface area, but it's not as simple as that. The reason is that there is simply less extractable matter exposed to the solvent (in this case, water).

I'm under the impression that a lighter roasted coffee just has "more to give", which is why I tend to prefer a finer grind normale double with them, and why I tend to updose darker roasts. (of course, roasting method has a lot to say about this as well.. I wouldn't normale an air-roasted coffee, normally.)

Of course, your mileage may vary, but this is my basic approach.

Welcome to bX, "That Coffee Guy".

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