I was going to say something about this problem, but soon I found a post in some forums about it. The guy who made that post remain in that forum on in Feb of 2007, and dispeared totally after that.

It was clearly stated that "we would concentrated in the quality of the drinks, but not the paintings", or similar. It was not due to the creater of the forums, but the participants to get "those" people having different opinions out of that forum, and shut up to talk about their own opinion about coffee and this duty, or passion or work.

I had recognized that I am not alone, but those had been kicked out of the sights and hearing.

In Chinese language, we used to say that "to better show on the perfect bases", that means that one can make a some very good things in a better look or something. If the shots are perfect, one can make it in a better look. But, the fact is normally not this as we all know around the world. We are still in a very low developing level of understanding espresso and its brewing skills, as well as its quality standards. Not even a single language to talk about different coffee drinks.

But, never try to define the tastes, it simply not possible.

I do not do the latte art almost, but train people how to prepare for it and how to practise for it, if necessary and they would. I spent a lot of time to practise of brewing espresso and find problems and solve the problems. I would not practise for latte art, and I do believe it takes a lot of time from practising brewing espresso.

I do not do latte art, not even brewing espresso for myself to enjoy. Although I know how to do it, I do not fix a set of machines, grinders, blends and working status for the machines, so that I am not experienced to make it perfect very soon. From our trainees, I can get a better one to enjoy.

Suppose I spent a lot of time to practise the latte art, I am sure I won't have enough time to think about espresso and its brewing.

For example, I used as firstly a computer in 1986 and bought my first notebook computer in 1992, and set up a forum about using of application softwares in 1997-98, which is still there and very active without my attention from many years ago, but I never be enrolled into software programming, neither coding.

Many people can learn to make latte art perfectly, but not many people can really understand espresso, and set up a new and well organized theory about coffee. So, that is what I like to do.

Recently, I had new trainee, who had see a lot of message about those rules and undestanding of brewing espresso from websites, forums, and books (all books in Chinese he can find), and so on. After my course of our coffee theory, he understood why we are right and why others' are wrong. How can I convince him? I am not a magic teller, but only tell the trueth, and the reason, and practise until to make a shot.

Tamping force? Theoretically, he understood, and practically he experienced it. So, for him, there is no way to refuse to believe us. We did not hide your opinions aside, but telling them all directly. They can even try different ways until they find the trueth.

The "Golden Rules" are printed on a large board and attached on the wall in our practicing room. For each item, we have our own explanation and our trainees can see it every time when they are practising.

What do we really expect?

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Comment by Jason Haeger on May 30, 2008 at 1:19pm

Caffe Artigiano

49th Parallel Coffee
2152 W 4th Avenue, between Arbutus and Yew
Phone (604)420-4901

J.J. Bean

Elysian Room

And please, have him bring some back for you to try.
Comment by Peter Tam on May 30, 2008 at 1:14pm
In fact, I do not prefer robusta, but blends with some robusta. We prefer the highest ratio of arabica and smallest robusta among the blends of a single Italian roaster. But, we do not like full arabica, including Illy and others we tried.

We tried almost anything, and we would have our trainees to try if they want.

Do you have any suggestion in Vancovour? I have a friend who is going there, and he make espresso and cappuccino at home too. Not so bad, I suppose. Since he is in Canada now, I do not know much about his coffee.

If you have any suggestion, I may ask him to try if possible.
Comment by Jason Haeger on May 30, 2008 at 11:59am
I sure hope you're not suggesting that robusta is necessary for espresso to be good.

To say so is to also suggest that it is impossible to have good fried food without salt. (it is possible, and it happens often)

I can understand that you PREFER robusta, but to suggest that it is the ONLY way is a bit much.

I am not saying that anything with robusta is bad. But you have suggested that anything without robusta somehow is. (perhaps not in this thread, but you have)

I do get tired of seeing post after post of your talking about how you think you're right and everyone else in your entire nation is wrong (when this is clearly not true, and it would be absurd to claim it even if it were).

I suggest that you do some more experimentation, including treating espresso as a brew method, detached from culture or tradition. The Italian way is not the only way.
Comment by Peter Tam on May 30, 2008 at 11:55am
Yes, I tried Illy, two of US and, not local they are surely not good for any reason.

Robusta beans are the magic, just like salt in a dish.
Comment by Peter Tam on May 30, 2008 at 11:44am
I know I am not the right person to say it, so I said many times, it was the experience of Italian coffee culture for at least sixty years.

I do not believe "espresso" is only a "brewing method". I only said, the taste cannot be precisely described.
Comment by Jason Haeger on May 30, 2008 at 11:38am
Okay, then are you arguing that all blends must contain robusta? If espresso is only a brew method, then who is to say what should or should not be used in this brew method?
Comment by Peter Tam on May 30, 2008 at 11:36am
It is what I meant.
Comment by Jason Haeger on May 30, 2008 at 11:33am
Espresso is a brew method. It should taste like the coffee used in the brew method. (just like any other brew method)

Trying to create some dogma of flavor is ridiculous, as this is entirely against everything we are pushing for in a culture that is "all about the coffee".
Comment by Peter Tam on May 30, 2008 at 11:28am
That was talking about the tastes of espresso as a kind of drink, not brewing method here. OK, maybe any other coffee included.

So, what do I talk? Should we say espresso, drip coffee, pressed coffee, vac coffee, perc coffee, vietnam coffee, belgium coffee, filtered coffee, and many others. So many coffee, and have do you explain or analysis of them?
Comment by Jason Haeger on May 30, 2008 at 11:22am
Fried rice is not a cooking method. It is a dish.

Espresso is a brewing method. You're in the wrong arena for debate.

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