Hey Guys,

 

Wondering for a little insight: Rossi (potentially RR45? All I know is that the customer traded folding tables for his grinder... good times, restaurant coffee) grinder that simply won't dial in. I pulled the grind ring in until the burrs were touching, then out 1 or 2 clicks and all my shots still ran like a 2 year old's nose (which, actually, the waiter I was working with said it was the best coffee they've made there so far... again, restaurant fail.). So far, the only even barely palatable shots were created from overdosing the basker until it had had enough and then tamping like a madman to jam the grinds in there.The machine is a Nuova Simmonelli Premier.

 

Pressure and temp on the machine look solid (if the gauges are working properly), but I have yet to scace it. The burrs on the grinder look like they've never been changed or cleaned... I'm guessing that's the culprit right there, but any insight would be much appreciated.

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I think the burrs are crooked. I've seen old coffee oil work it's way underneath one side of a burr and lift it up a little. Take it all apart and clean it up. Some times just getting all that old oil and crappy old coffee debris out of the chamber and re setting the burrs will clear things up. Also with the old burrs they do more crushing/pulverizing than cutting. The freshness of the coffee counts as well.
Mike Sabol said:
I think the burrs are crooked. I've seen old coffee oil work it's way underneath one side of a burr and lift it up a little. Take it all apart and clean it up. Some times just getting all that old oil and crappy old coffee debris out of the chamber and re setting the burrs will clear things up. Also with the old burrs they do more crushing/pulverizing than cutting. The freshness of the coffee counts as well.

Yeah, I feel that... but even stale coffee I should be able to get bare minimun crema off of. I'm telling you, like gushing jets and brown water.

I'm going to run some Grindz over the burrs tonight (or soon hereafter), and take the whole thing apart for a solid cleaning.
Tristan Bacon said:
Yeah, I feel that... but even stale coffee I should be able to get bare minimun crema off of.

Really?

This sounds very much like dead, dead dull burrs and stale coffee to me. Or the problem Mike described. How stale is stale?

How does the ground espresso look?
Well, I tore the grinder apart and gave it the ol' clean. Scraped more dead, disgusting clumped up coffee oil off the burrs than I think I've ever seen.

Uncool.

The grind looks fine enough for any machine I've ever worked on, although the Rossi is taking it's sweet time to grind a half decent dose. Dead burrs might be the case, but I don't think it's the age on the beans that's the problem; I ran through all the stale coffee and put them onto fresher stuff... although the beautiful fresh coffee I brought them was sitting in the - you guessed it - industrial fridge. I guess that's my bad for telling them not to put it in the freezer.

When I purge the group heads, I'm getting boiling water, so that's gotta be a factor. But I've never seen temp affect espresso in such a dramatic way before. Thoughts?
Boiling water will lengthen extraction times.

Dead burrs crush the coffee instead of cutting/slicing it which means that you'll never get a good tamp on the puck because the coffee particles won't interlock. If the burrs are new and the motor is good then you should be able to choke the espresso machine with something it would never be able to push through. If you're at your finest setting before locking the burrs together and your still getting fast shots then your burrs are toast.
Right on. It's not gonna be easy, but I'm gonna try to convince him to get new burrs... unfortunate that a restaurant with such a high quality menu and service will treat their coffee program so poorly.

I'll get back to you guys.
Tristan Bacon said:
unfortunate that a restaurant with such a high quality menu and service will treat their coffee program so poorly.

.

Happens all the time. 'Vegas has really loose slots at the exits, and at the airport. Why? No matter how much someone has lost, or how hot/rainy it was, or how bad the room service was, a gambler that wins as the last thing he does before he leaves, leaves happy.
OTOH, a foodie or a coffee nut won't remember a great meal, he'll remember that the last thing they did to him was hand him crappy coffee. Seems a waste to put all that skill, knowledge, and money into every part of the meal, and skimp and save on the part that sends them home with a lingering taste on their tongue.
Tell the Chef that, and then ask him what he wants to do about it.
i have worked with multiple rossi's and can tell you with confidence that you will rarely every get acceptable espresso out of it regardless of how well cleaned it is or how new the burrs are. A typical grinder with new burrs will still take 12 to 15 seconds to grind 20 grams of coffee. It runs really hot, so forget about shot quality consistency. Sorry to be such a Debby Downer, but its burr speed and the design lends itself to slow and overheated output.
Chris DeMarse said:
you will rarely every get acceptable espresso out of it regardless of how well cleaned it is or how new the burrs are. A typical grinder with new burrs will still take 12 to 15 seconds to grind 20 grams of coffee.

Still, though, if the burrs are good and aligned, it should be able to choke the machine at it's finest setting, yeah?

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