(Is for stock only)
Well that was quite a lot of - historyrepeatingitselfagaininyetanotherpe terinbeijingthreadaboutespressostandards - in one take.
Posted January 28, 2008 link
I had a careful reading of your post, based on my poor English, and summarized that you mainly talked about the following respects.
It is not something new, but for many of Italian coffee roasters, they make it but not sell it the best. For the roasters, they use more arabica in their blend and charge more to their customers. It is never a loose for them, isn't it?
For the cafes, it was said that the price for espresso was limited and controled by the Italian government, so they may prefer to reduce the cost for making espresso.
In China, the coffee cost more, and also the coffee drinks cost much more, even than in Europe. For many of local cafes, a cup of espresso cost about US$3.00 or more. But, a kg of coffee beans can make about 130-140 cups of espresso, and the difference between high cost beans and low cost beans is normally less than 1%. for 1 kilo, it is about US$10, but for a cup, it is only less than 1% of the total price for a cup.
It may explain that pure arabica blends are not popular in Italy not for its higher price, but something different, I think.
We did had some samples of pure arabica blends, including the one from Illy and Caffe Molinari. There are some Chinese friends like it, but most people, mainly from our trainees, prefer ORO blend, and even those with more rubusta beans.
As people knows, it has some problems, but in China, it can be much worse. As I said, their judges, organization, and basically, how to judge if they are not very clear about the tastes of espresso? If one talk about it only by bitterness, that is far from enough, IMHO.
It can be improved, and have to be improved, as people know more and more about espresso and its coffee drinks. But, I did not see their attension, neither effort for that. For exmpla, about our Kaffa Cafe, even if we made so much effort, they never care about it. If they do not believe us, they came and check it out and laugh, with no more any cost, even if I was lying.
We are using the ORO blend of Caffe Molinari, from Modena, and their website is
They have distributor in Australia but not in US yet. So, at this moment, it can be not convenient to get it in US. But, there are many people going between Australia and US. Probably one can get it from their distributor in Australia.
As our opinion, that is a great blend, but not must be the greatest one in Italy. For such a craft products, one can never say the best. Even an old Italian family may have a great one, but they may not make it and sell it in the market. Like wine, almost every Italian family make it and no one can tell which is the best. I enjoy almost any of them.
As I explained yet, we got this volume basically from Italy, not our creation. But, we have got a good reason for it, that is the body of an espresso.
About the intense of our espresso, due to our different blends used for our espresso, I guess that many of you will feel it is too strong, as that guest I mentioned, if we make it as 25-30 ml. While if we make it to 40-45 ml, you may feel comfortable. Of course, not all of you.
Even our trainees, some of them prefer those blends with more rubusta beans, like CLASSIC and ESPRESSO blends of Caffe Molinari, more than our ORO blend.
I would LOVE, and I mean LOVE to spend some time with you (Peter) and do some experimenting, chatting, theorizing, and what-have-you about espresso extraction and dogma. I hope we have the chance at some point.
Posted January 28, 2008 link
I do expect to have a chance to chat with you and other friends about coffee.