New cafe opening need recommendations on espresso machines

hey sup everyone!! im about to open up another cafe... thinking of changing my espresso machine. Can neone help me out on which machines is good? ne recommendation? i was thinking either getting the la cimbali GT or WBC simonelli. And also an espresso small grinder and reg size grinders... thanks!!!

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In reference to pressure profiling etc...
Often times people will pick a machine based on the new features and not based on track record. You have to think long and hard about this companies history. When I see machine manufacturers adding profiling or PID or individual boilers to their machines when previously their machines were marginal in quality at best and hell to work on at worst...I get suspicious.
It would seem prudent for a manufacturer to jump on a trend...but the way some of them do it is as if they were just jolted awake from a long nap. ie: the "advance" is strikingly and contrasted next to their fleet of bad machines. It is quite telling.
So rather than say "I think we will buy xyz machine company because they came out with a new machine that has this whistle and that bell!"
you may want to just plug your ears and look at the big picture.
I have used the Simonelli a little. Seems to be OK, but there is a lot of plastic on it. My roaster bought one for training for the barista competitions and he still prefers La Marzocoos over anything else out there. I concur with the comment about grinders. I started with used La Pavoni, moved on to Super Jolly, bought a WBC Mahlkonig and must say the Compak conical WBC grinders have been the best. The grinders have made the biggest difference in espresso quality.

Al
I have a ten year old two-group Nuova Simonelli, classic piston-lever groups. I have nothing but great things to say about Simonelli machines and the service. The performance is consistently excellent: the busier I get, the better my machine works. I have delt with several machine problems that were quickly solved by both Simonelli in the U.S.A and also from Simonelli in Italy, over the tel. Example: in the beginning, I was trying to figure out why all my espressos were tasting horrible, no matter what blend I used. I contacted many local technicians and dealers, including non-simonelli, and they were all stumped. After many wasted hours and days, I decided to go to the source: Italy. I contacted simonelli italy, and right away I was speaking with a technician who helped design the actual model I was using. He knew within minutes what the problem was and gave a simple explanation and remedy. While on the phone with him, I started pulling unbelievalbe shots for the very first time. It was like I saw the sunrise for the first time in my life. I spent a lot of money on this machine and was having huge doubts, but this fellow took all my doubting away and showed me how to be a great barista by keeping it simple with common sense. I won'to go into the answer to my problem, but I just want to tell you that you will not go wrong with Simonelli. Plus, they are one of the only companies I know that own their U.S.A corporate office.

On the other hand, La Cimbali is also a favourite of mine. I have always loved the look of the old M30 classics, especially in red. It's true that they are the Rolls Royces of espresso machines. You will pay much more for Cimbali, but here's a great tip: the old models are a bargain and work just as well as the new machines and at least half the cost. There is a local italian roaster in Toronto who's been making espresso since the 1960's. He imported those La Cimbali M30's by the skid load, and he still sells them today. In my neighbourhood, which is predominately Italian (suburb of Toronto) most espresso bars use a Sicilian blend called Ionia. I visit many of these bars and the espressos all taste the same: okay but not great. Then one day, I visited a trattoria for lunch and they had an old La Cimbali M30 classic, red, and I could see the Ionia bags on their shelf. I ordered a shot, and to my surprise, it was the best espresso I had in my neighbourhood. The crema was the thickest I've seen of all the Ionia shots, and the flavour was rich and balanced: I was shocked at the difference in taste. I went back to this restaurant many times and the results were the same every time. And it wasnt the barista because I've had great shots from many people at this restaurant. This old Cimbali is making better espressos than any fancy Toronto espresso bar that uses the latest and greatest machines, except mine of course.

I was told once by a roaster in Italy that the flavour profile from La Cimbali machines is unmatched by any other espresso machine. I never believed in his statement, until now. When I do add another machine to my lineup, this will be the one.

I hope this helps.
Bu usability I mean how easy it is to use and how is the user interface. For me, WBC aurelia is the king. Everything in that machine just makes sense. The brew buttons are on the right place, they are easy to press (compared to la marzocco for example), the steaming wand is just the right shape, the steaming joystick is excellent, it's easy to lock the portafilters, the portafilters fit in my hands, it's easy to see what's happening on the work surface and so forth.

God is in the details and you really start to appreciate these kind of details when struggling 6 days a week, 8+ hours a day and 0.65 coffees a minute with a pair of bad wrists (goddam skateboards).

When it comes to Rancilios, I know they have a reputation of being bomb proof machines and how much we owe for the miss Silvia but they still feel like toys instead of tools. The hollow plasticky portafilters which are oddly balanced, it's hard to see what's happening, the brew button is hard to find, the steam wand is bad and so forth.



Jason Shipley said:
We'll see what happens but as far as their current machines they are certainly on par with the Aurelia (I own one), I would agree that they are behind La Marzocco from a tech standpoint but their reliability is very good and their pricing makes a lot more sense. Espresso Machine prices have gotten out of control and I'm sure we've all been in stores that have a $20K machine that should have bought a more realistically priced machine and invested in barista training or better coffee.

What do you mean by useability? I found the Class 8 and 10 to be nice machines, the CLever steam valve was a bit hinky but overall a pretty nice machine, and the shots I pulled were good.
thanks everyone!! i got much to think about!! a lot of you guys r saying la cimbali gt m39 is no good? and get aurelia? i dunno ill look into everything you guys said and make my decidition.


Chris Son said:
thanks everyone!! i got much to think about!! a lot of you guys r saying la cimbali gt m39 is no good? and get aurelia? i dunno ill look into everything you guys said and make my decidition.

If that was your takeaway, I suggest that you go back and read again...


J. For me, WBC aurelia is the king. Everything in that machine just makes sense. The brew buttons are on the right place, they are easy to press (compared to la marzocco for example),



Well i work on the WBC aurelia and the la marzocco Gb5 semi and really i dont know what your talking about... The gb5 brew button Can,t be easier. if you talking about lamarzocco LINEA well .. it like comparing a 2010 ford ranger with a 1990 Tacoma.. the ranger will fill smother and better..with fancy option. but the tacoma is still a live a lease...


olivier dutil said:


J. For me, WBC aurelia is the king. Everything in that machine just makes sense. The brew buttons are on the right place, they are easy to press (compared to la marzocco for example),



Well i work on the WBC aurelia and the la marzocco Gb5 semi and really i dont know what your talking about... The gb5 brew button Can,t be easier. if you talking about lamarzocco LINEA well .. it like comparing a 2010 ford ranger with a 1990 Tacoma.. the ranger will fill smother and better..with fancy option. but the tacoma is still a live a lease...

Obivously you don't so please let me explain. As a background information: I work with Gb5 too, really do like the looks, taste and feel of that machine. The difference between the buttons may seem like trivial until you pay attention to them.

The rate of accidentally engaging the brewing or accidentally not stopping the brew when working under stressful conditions (stress, fatigue, dehydration) happens on a regular basis. I (and many others) blame the neutral tactile feel and the lack of 'feedback' of the cliketyclik-button compared to the switch on Linea and the button on Aurelia. Small differences but differences nevertheless.

I am in no way talking about the internal differences. For me La Marzocco machines (and Linea, especially for the culturally historical value) are the machines that all others are to be judged. Considering that, NS still got it right with WBC A. imo.

Great comparison with cars btw. I've always pictured the Linea as an old and dirty but trusty Toyota Hilux.
This quote has me scratching my head because I am having such a hard time selling my practically new wbc aurelia for a really cheap price. I need the extra cash for a build out and can't carry two machines right now. If anyone has any suggestions on how to get the word out there to sell this machine please pm me.. thanks



olivier dutil said:


J. For me, WBC aurelia is the king. Everything in that machine just makes sense. The brew buttons are on the right place, they are easy to press (compared to la marzocco for example),



Well i work on the WBC aurelia and the la marzocco Gb5 semi and really i dont know what your talking about... The gb5 brew button Can,t be easier. if you talking about lamarzocco LINEA well .. it like comparing a 2010 ford ranger with a 1990 Tacoma.. the ranger will fill smother and better..with fancy option. but the tacoma is still a live a lease...
First, you need to choose the best suitable grinder, whatever the price. Then, count the money you have left, and look for an espresso machine. You got it the other way round.



Chris Son said:
thanks everyone!! i got much to think about!! a lot of you guys r saying la cimbali gt m39 is no good? and get aurelia? i dunno ill look into everything you guys said and make my decidition.
Yeah i gotta agree, Cimbali are good solid machines. I've worked with various models throughout the years and we rarely had problems (they were always well maintained though). I also like some Bezzera machines, they made the first auto machine apparently? & they ones i've used seem very strong and reliable.

Kim xx
If you're in NC maybe you'd like to come check out the Marzocco 2 group linea, or the Rancilio z11 I have here for sale. pm me for prices and pictures/videos.

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