Hey guys!

Okay, so this one is might be a bit contraversial but we'll see where it goes.
I was talking to some of my staff & a couple of other friends of mine who are in the trade the other day and we got onto the topic of "which sex is best", the usual banter rolls around but then we did get into a fairly deep conversion throwing in various pro's and con's to have male or female baristas. (girls rock btw...hehe). 

Things like sex appeal, confidence and even work ethics came about and it was a nice thing to think about after the comedy value was fulfilled...lol

I'd just like to ask you guys what you think. I know that i'm good at what i do, and so are all the ladies i've worked with. But i hire and work with gents who are amazing at what they do too. Also, do you think its a guy trade or a girl trade - i notice on my FB account there are a huge amount of guy baristas???

Opinons guys & gals?...hehe
Kim xx

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I personally hire people that 1st and foremost love coffee. I really could care less if they are cute or male/female. Dedication to their craft is my main concern. Dawn
Amen to that.


January Wythe-Vawter said:
This thread makes me sad. 

I work so hard to be taken seriously as a woman in coffee. 

Dawn Pinaud said:
I personally hire people that 1st and foremost love coffee. I really could care less if they are cute or male/female. Dedication to their craft is my main concern. Dawn
While my workplace is presently mostly female (and it runs well!), I also think that gender balance is a good thing, especially if you have regular customers. Some people are intimidated (or threatened) by those of the same gender. If you have a gender balance in a shop it allows the women to harmlessly flirt with the male baristas, and the females with the males. And I don't mean flirt in the sexual sense, rather some people get a kick out of having a witty repartee with someone of the opposite gender, it makes them feel like they're getting extra attention if it's from someone of the opposite sex. The baristas I work with tend to not engage in sexual conversations at all, but joking and talking with customers is encouraged.

I also think that an equal gender ratio brings more balance to a workplace for staff. It helps level things out a bit.

However I have noticed in NZ that the espresso scene is largely male-dominated. In the NZBC women competitors outnumbered men, yet few women place. In fact, the year I competed, I was the only female to place at all! I wonder about this gender disparity, like others have expressed I don't think that men as a gender make better or worse coffee, and the lack of women at the top of the competitive coffee making is not due to lack of participants!
I think a gender balance is good. We have 5 or more people working at once in my shop, and I notice, for whatever reason, that shifts with a good mix of people & persuasions stays on task better, cleans more. Perhaps because one group never gets comfortable with itself, so everybody is worried more about appearances? And, of course, having a mix of people lets customers pick someone they're comfortable to talk to if they need to.

That said, I wouldn't want to make any generalizations about guys or girls, dudes or ladies. It comes down to the individual. Friendly people always make better customer service people, no matter what they look like.
Triple amen to that. Except that I'm not a woman.

The first responses tried to correct the sin committed by the thread. And then it continued.

This may not be PC, but I find the fact that this thread has gone as far as it has to be disappointing.


Amanda said:
Amen to that.


January Wythe-Vawter said:
This thread makes me sad. 

I work so hard to be taken seriously as a woman in coffee. 

Dawn Pinaud said:
I personally hire people that 1st and foremost love coffee. I really could care less if they are cute or male/female. Dedication to their craft is my main concern. Dawn

I don't think this is unreasonable thread. It is definately controversial and perhaps sad that we even need to talk about these issues in 2010. I think some pretty interesting points have been made. When I go to a bar what kind of bartender do I prefer to have? When I get an americano does the sex of the barista matter? Who do I think provides a better service. I am in a profession where the vast majority of people are women. I am constantly fighting stereotypes when it comes to my job. I worked in one school where out of 45 teachers there were only 10 men. Fact is men have to fight stereotypes everyday when it comes to educating young children. Anyway this thread maybe a bit odd but I think it is valid. As a consumer of coffee everyday honestly I put good service above having the god shot!

Jason Haeger said:
Triple amen to that. Except that I'm not a woman.

The first responses tried to correct the sin committed by the thread. And then it continued.

This may not be PC, but I find the fact that this thread has gone as far as it has to be disappointing.


Amanda said:
Amen to that.


January Wythe-Vawter said:
This thread makes me sad. 

I work so hard to be taken seriously as a woman in coffee. 

Dawn Pinaud said:
I personally hire people that 1st and foremost love coffee. I really could care less if they are cute or male/female. Dedication to their craft is my main concern. Dawn
It's all part of the same package. This thread is singling out what should be a non-issue in the niche that bX services. At the risk of sounding elitist, I thought we were past that.

Paging Jay Caragay...


Brendan said:

I don't think this is unreasonable thread. It is definately controversial and perhaps sad that we even need to talk about these issues in 2010. I think some pretty interesting points have been made. When I go to a bar what kind of bartender do I prefer to have? When I get an americano does the sex of the barista matter? Who do I think provides a better service. I am in a profession where the vast majority of people are women. I am constantly fighting stereotypes when it comes to my job. I worked in one school where out of 45 teachers there were only 10 men. Fact is men have to fight stereotypes everyday when it comes to educating young children. Anyway this thread maybe a bit odd but I think it is valid. As a consumer of coffee everyday honestly I put good service above having the god shot!

Jason Haeger said:
Triple amen to that. Except that I'm not a woman.

The first responses tried to correct the sin committed by the thread. And then it continued.

This may not be PC, but I find the fact that this thread has gone as far as it has to be disappointing.


Amanda said:
Amen to that.


January Wythe-Vawter said:
This thread makes me sad. 

I work so hard to be taken seriously as a woman in coffee. 

Dawn Pinaud said:
I personally hire people that 1st and foremost love coffee. I really could care less if they are cute or male/female. Dedication to their craft is my main concern. Dawn
What about in countries outside the US? Where sexism is equally alive but it not looked down on so much? have you considered that?
Some of the points made here apply massively to Baristas (male & female) in Europe, Africa & the Asian countries?

to just go "oh this thread makes me sad and shouldn't exist" is stupid, because a lot of the points made still hold weight. Maybe not on your doorstep (but probably) but defiantly in less developed countries where sexism is still hugely going on.

Take your blinkers off and don't tell me that sexism shouldn't be discussed in 2010

Fair play to Brendan for being honest and the bar person point is bang on and a great comparison.

Kim xx
It isn't the discussion of sexism that worries me. The way it was portrayed in this thread gives it power. To discuss it is one step forward, but in this case, it may also be two steps back.

Those who would hire based on sex appeal miss the point entirely. That's the kind of discussion that makes me sad. If the question were about professionalism and whether or not both genders are respected equally as professionals, I would jump right in and push for equality. But that isn't the direction that this thread went in.

While making money is a necessity for staying in business, it is not, and should not be the purpose of it. If it is, may I strongly recommend that you find another career?


Kim Sammons said:
What about in countries outside the US? Where sexism is equally alive but it not looked down on so much? have you considered that?
Some of the points made here apply massively to Baristas (male & female) in Europe, Africa & the Asian countries?

to just go "oh this thread makes me sad and shouldn't exist" is stupid, because a lot of the points made still hold weight. Maybe not on your doorstep (but probably) but defiantly in less developed countries where sexism is still hugely going on.

Take your blinkers off and don't tell me that sexism shouldn't be discussed in 2010

Fair play to Brendan for being honest and the bar person point is bang on and a great comparison.

Kim xx
Kim,
I am struggling to find where that quote of "this thread makes me sad and shouldn't exist" came from...
The view expressed was "This thread makes me sad. I work hard to be taken seriously as a woman barista"
How is that thought she shared, as you have so maturely and professionally put it, "Stupid"?
I think that you may find putting words in someones mouth to be more fitting of that description.
If you are a trainer, Kim...you must learn to work with people of all types of views and backgrounds.
To alienate a member here by putting words in her mouth and then marginalizing them as saying "stupid" things ...to me is not fit for a trainer let alone one who is selling themselves here as a professional.





Kim Sammons said:
What about in countries outside the US? Where sexism is equally alive but it not looked down on so much? have you considered that?
Some of the points made here apply massively to Baristas (male & female) in Europe, Africa & the Asian countries?

to just go "oh this thread makes me sad and shouldn't exist" is stupid, because a lot of the points made still hold weight. Maybe not on your doorstep (but probably) but defiantly in less developed countries where sexism is still hugely going on.

Take your blinkers off and don't tell me that sexism shouldn't be discussed in 2010

Fair play to Brendan for being honest and the bar person point is bang on and a great comparison.

Kim xx
Kim, you were looking for thoughts on this matter.

Disappointment that this is being discussed is a valid opinion on the matter, is it not?
well, if she looks good and can do latte art, who cares if she don't do any side work....the line is out the door every minute of every day...

too bad most of the hotties can't draw rosettas and if they can, they prolly want so much money to work for you that it ain't worth it.

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