Espresso Machines: Which is better Nuova Simonelli or La Marzocco

I want to open a shop and I would like some advice about which machines people think are the best. I would like a 3group and cost is not an issue.

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Bill, you don't mean one of those recycled *$'s machines do you?
I'm looking for your smiley...

Bill Warnock said:
i say get a super auto......
Damon, since we are talking nice spro machines for folks with $. I just came from a cool site of one of my Russian friends, Irina Puzachkova on BX, http://www.coffeemania.ru/eng/
One of their machines is a La Mistral, It is a three group new LM machine /model/ design.
It looks like they "LM" were not to be undone by Synesso. In fact I would say, (if I didn't know better) that the engineer who I met at a previous Seattle Coffee fest and I can't remember his name, who broke off of LM and came up with the Synesso, colaborated with LM to come up with this beautiful machine. The claim is made/suggested that this is Bill Gates home personal machine.
Sweet....

Damon Lurie said:
if cost isnt an issue then i would also consider looking at the mirage 3group machine which looks and reads incredible. its deisigned by the same person who deisigned the speedster
Jack,
Was this last comment directed to Dr. John? Doesn't matter, I can use the information. Nice to hear of your spro machine technique. After hearing of different barista dance's I think I would like to learn the, ( I can't pronounce it) one with the grinders on the oposite counter where you spin back to the machine and have the left and right side of the spro machine free of grinders and that action. I realize that each and every shop with be set up custom to their particular needs...
Cheers Jack,
Joseph Robertson

Jack Groot said:
Joseph, we require our baristas to rotate through grouphead 1, 2, and 3 when they are on the bar. Another aspect for us that is a benefit is the expanded cup warmer. We serve glass/ceramic in the store and the larger machine allows for more space on top.
The Mistral was designed be Kees Van Der Westin same designer as the speedster. LM licensed the design from Kees and updated the internals to modern LM standards. Internaly it's an FB-80 but like all the LMs it can be ordered with all custom internals like padle groups and seperate tanks. It's price is quite steep, tricked out, twice that of an FB-80.

Joseph Robertson said:
Damon, since we are talking nice spro machines for folks with $. I just came from a cool site of one of my Russian friends, Irina Puzachkova on BX, http://www.coffeemania.ru/eng/ One of their machines is a La Mistral, It is a three group new LM machine /model/ design. It looks like they "LM" were not to be undone by Synesso. In fact I would say, (if I didn't know better) that the engineer who I met at a previous Seattle Coffee fest and I can't remember his name, who broke off of LM and came up with the Synesso, colaborated with LM to come up with this beautiful machine. The claim is made/suggested that this is Bill Gates home personal machine.
Sweet....

Damon Lurie said:
if cost isnt an issue then i would also consider looking at the mirage 3group machine which looks and reads incredible. its deisigned by the same person who deisigned the speedster
OFF PRESENT QUESTION ..BUT DOES ANYONE HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH BRASILIA LEVA MACHINES ?
Wish I did....

terry paton said:
OFF PRESENT QUESTION ..BUT DOES ANYONE HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH BRASILIA LEVA MACHINES ?
Which model?

Joseph Robertson said:
Wish I did....

terry paton said:
OFF PRESENT QUESTION ..BUT DOES ANYONE HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH BRASILIA LEVA MACHINES ?
terry paton said:
OFF PRESENT QUESTION ..BUT DOES ANYONE HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH BRASILIA LEVA MACHINES ?

I think perhaps the two conversations you started prior to this one should get you an answer. Please, only ask once.
either machine will make great espresso.

What you should be worrying more about is how well you can train your baristas and how good of a grinder you can pick up.

Instead of putting extra cash into the machine, you should look into purchasing a Mazzer Robur.
I love your answer!!! Have a question, I am not a techie. We have a 3 Group LaMar, the little white reset button on the left group... from time to time it pops... a simple reset seems to do the trick. If you happen to know what that is, shoot me a note. Thanks... Marek

On the loss of machine... what we do is we wire our stores with 4-wire 220 service for the big machines. We also add a deadicated 20 amp plug... in the warehouse we have a couple of 110v/20 amp 'spares' for downtime... but I love your answer... 2-two group machines instead of a three head... awesome...



Dr. Joseph John said:
If you are considering a 3-group machine, and cost is no issue, I would recommend two 2-group machines, instead.

First of all, in a 3-group machine, the middle group is virtually unusable when the other two groups are being used. There just isn't enough space for a barista to work in there, if other baristi are using the outer groups.

With a single 3-group machine, you are still susceptible to too many single point failures. As some one already pointed out recently, on another topic on this board, if your espresso machine is down, you are virtually out of business. With two 2-group machines, there are no machine related single point failures to cripple you.

You can arrange your machines on the counter with all the grinders in between the two espresso machines.

It is not uncommon in heat exchange machine to over size the boiler to minimize the temperature fluctuations in brew water, thus the use of 3-group machines when a 2-group machine can handle the traffic. No such consideration is necessary for a double boiler machine.

I will be happy to put you in touch with one of our customers who started planning for a 3-group machine and then switched to two 2-group machines. You can see what their experience has been. If you are interested, send me an e-mail.

Good Luck.
Joe said...
"This machine is truly going to take espresso into the future"
____________________________________________________________

I understand what you are driving at but don't you think baristas can take espresso into the future a bit more with the machines we currently have?
Are we really implying that we have tapped espressos potential and that our present machines are the reason we are not seeing better coffee?
I doubt this is the case.
I think that we as baristas need to shoulder more blame for bad coffee than the equipment manufacturers.

The question of which machine to buy is important and some sets of qualities will be better than others. There are "bad" espresso machines out there. But at a certain quality level, which I believe LM and Nuova are both on, it ceases to be about the quality of the vehicle and becomes more about the quality of the driver.

-cd
Jackson,
I like your take on this. What I would give for that grinder....

Jackson Ball said:
either machine will make great espresso.

What you should be worrying more about is how well you can train your baristas and how good of a grinder you can pick up.

Instead of putting extra cash into the machine, you should look into purchasing a Mazzer Robur.

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