College Plans Next Year
Hey BX'ers, I am in the midst of figuring out how to pay for college. I feel very strongly that i will have a career in the coffee industry. My goal is to own a shop that roasts their own coffee, offering a wide selection of brewing methods. I am also interested in getting into wholesale roasting. Looking at the road ahead, I am beginning to see college as something that is delaying the start of my career, rather than facilitating it. The cost of student loans on top of the loans involved with starting a shop, seem like too much to take on. I value education. I love to learn. But i am finding it harder and harder to justify paying for a degree, that isn't a pre-requisite for my future career.
My current plans involve getting a BA with a major in business administration and a minor in political science. I often have the urge to scarp the expensive university and invest in classes at ABC and/or take business administration classes at a technical college.
Is a degree worth paying for just to have as a back up? Is it essential to the coffee trade? Would it be better to move out to Seattle and learn about the industry first hand? Should i try to get an internship somewhere like Sweet Marias?
Please help. I'm about to spend 20,000+ dollars.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Joshua Taves on
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ha yeah... Im going through the same thing. let me know what you decide and why. Although I'd look into ABC before going there. I dont know first hand but I have heard that If you already have a pretty extensive knowledge of coffee you might be better off looking into classes offered by BGA. Thats just what I've heard though
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Permalink Reply by Alex Stoffregen on
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Thats kind of the vibe I got from ABC. They know what they are talking about, but from the looks of it they spend quite a bit of time on subjects i feel i have a pretty good grasp on.
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Permalink Reply by Jared Rutledge on
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i got a degree in philosophy well before i knew that i wanted to make coffee a career (at least for the foreseeable future). the main thing i took away from it was the ability to critically think about any subject, and that's been a huge boon to me in this business. i'm sure you could get that experience in other ways besides college, but for me it was a great way to mature, get a better grasp on who i was and what i wanted, and learn to think.
i didn't go to get a vocational degree, though, so in that regard you might be better off ditching it. but if you want to become a far more rounded person and better thinker, then go get a decent liberal arts education.
alternatively, take some savings and go work on a coffee farm for a summer.
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Thanks Jared. The coffee farm idea sounds pretty sweet actually. How cool would it be to work at a farm in varying growing regions. Changing up every summer. One summer work in sumatra, the next guatamala. In the "School" year I could work at a shop and go to school, maybe find a way to use a research grant to fund a program to connect farmers with local roasters. You've got me thinking now...Thanks!
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Permalink Reply by Mike McGinness on
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Education is great for the sake of education. Education is not necessarily great for finding your calling. That said many MANY MANY MANY businesses fail not from not knowing the technical aspects or having a passion, but from lack of knowing how to run a business. Statistically 50% fail in the first 5 years. Half. Of the remaining 50% that started 80% of those fail in the next 5 years. That leaves 10% still going 10 years in. Now there are other studies not quite as bleak yet most seem to trend the same. Bottom line knowing your product definitely ain't necessarily enough.
From your BIO it appears you have no professional experience but have about a year and a half experience as a home roaster and home barista. Yet you say after researching ABC
but from the looks of it they spend quite a bit of time on subjects i feel i have a pretty good grasp on.
This actually tells me how little you know. I have a scant 10 years roasting and barista experience, 3 years professionally running my own Roastery Cafe (now two locations with a possible third on the near horizon) Yet if I had the time and money I would benefit from ABC. Oh, I have attended numerous Barista competitions, including Regional Level barista competition judging, hosted 6 home roaster/home barista gathering/jams with as many as a dozen espresso machines in my house, hosted professional barista latte throwdown, pulled thousands of shots for very satisfied customers , roasted many tons of coffee etc.
And I KNOW the more I know the more I know I don't know.
Get a job in a quality shop and get a solid business education foundation. Attend as many coffee related seminars, trade shows, competitions etc. as you can. In a few years when you may then be ready to open your own shop you'll be glad you did. Is a degree necessarily beneficial? I don't think so. But good business education sure as hell would be.
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Permalink Reply by christopher myers on
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If anyone out there has bachelor's business major, correct me if I'm wrong, but majoring in business has always seemed like a waste of time to me, at least for small businesses. However, I do recommend getting a degree in something. Going on with what Jared said, getting a degree will sharpen your general critical thinking skills, and your ability to focus on things that require brain power. To me, getting in touch with small business owners, talking to people like you're doing now, getting as much real world experience as you can, and getting a BA in something, seems way better than getting a business degree. I made my own major with English, Philosophy, and Psychology classes, yet I feel that with enough planning, I can figure out anything I need to to run a cafe, along with my actual cafe experience, of course. But maybe I'm just being cocky.
Anyway, if I were you, I'd do the school thing provided you could get some grants, and work in a cafe/roastery a few days a week, incessantly pestering the owner with technical questions. Major in whatever interests you. If the school offers subsidized loans, I'd take out as much as I could, and use that to open my cafe when I graduated. Small business loans are nearly impossible to get, and school loans have the best interest rates out there. Also, if you decide not to be a lifelong barista, a degree in anything will help you get a job. What you majored in rarely matters unless you're talking masters or phD.
Or, if you think business classes will be valuable, save yourself some money and just take a few classes at a community college.
-my 3 cents
miKe mcKoffee aka Mike McGinness said:Education is great for the sake of education. Education is not necessarily great for finding your calling. That said many MANY MANY MANY businesses fail not from not knowing the technical aspects or having a passion, but from lack of knowing how to run a business. Statistically 50% fail in the first 5 years. Half. Of the remaining 50% that started 80% of those fail in the next 5 years. That leaves 10% still going 10 years in. Now there are other studies not quite as bleak yet most seem to trend the same. Bottom line knowing your product definitely ain't necessarily enough.
From your BIO it appears you have no professional experience but have about a year and a half experience as a home roaster and home barista. Yet you say after researching ABC
but from the looks of it they spend quite a bit of time on subjects i feel i have a pretty good grasp on.
This actually tells me how little you know. I have a scant 10 years roasting and barista experience, 3 years professionally running my own Roastery Cafe (now two locations with a possible third on the near horizon) Yet if I had the time and money I would benefit from ABC. Oh, I have attended numerous Barista competitions, including Regional Level barista competition judging, hosted 6 home roaster/home barista gathering/jams with as many as a dozen espresso machines in my house, hosted professional barista latte throwdown, pulled thousands of shots for very satisfied customers , roasted many tons of coffee etc.
And I KNOW the more I know the more I know I don't know.
Get a job in a quality shop and get a solid business education foundation. Attend as many coffee related seminars, trade shows, competitions etc. as you can. In a few years when you may then be ready to open your own shop you'll be glad you did. Is a degree necessarily beneficial? I don't think so. But good business education sure as hell would be.
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Permalink Reply by Adam Wilson on
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Jared said, "i didn't go to get a vocational degree, though, so in that regard you might be better off ditching it. but if you want to become a far more rounded person and better thinker, then go get a decent liberal arts education."
And I agree completely. I have a BS in Mathematics (i.e., symbolic philosophy) ;)
I may never use it in the coffee industry, but it DID teach me how to think and how to learn (mathematics literally means learning in Greek, fyi), and that is absolutely invaluable in the business world.
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Permalink Reply by Jeremy Perrine on
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My BA is in Biblical Theology. Safe to say I agree with Jared. Definitely check out a community college or technical school. Large Universities, unless they're paid for, aren't worth the accumulated debt.
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Permalink Reply by Brady on
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Joshua Taves said:ha yeah... Im going through the same thing. let me know what you decide and why. Although I'd look into ABC before going there. I dont know first hand but I have heard that If you already have a pretty extensive knowledge of coffee you might be better off looking into classes offered by BGA. Thats just what I've heard though
I definitely agree that it is always good to evaluate all of your options before deciding where to spend your time and money.
I also feel like sharing firsthand experiences is generally far more useful than just repeating what you've heard...
I've helped teach at couple of the SCAA/BGA courses, and am familiar with the offerings at this point. They are very good, solid, fundamentals-based classes that are valuable, especially to those that are just starting out. I'd hardly put them above some of the other fundamentals classes out there, though. Make no mistake, either... at this point they are very much fundamentals classes. That will change in the future, though.
I'm not dismissing the value of having a good grasp on the fundamentals, not by a longshot. In fact, I feel like the vast majority of the baristas out there could stand to work on their fundamentals (myself included). I took the Beginner Espresso class offered by Counter Culture Coffee a couple of weeks ago and learned something - despite having been a station lead for the SCAA's Hands-On Espresso lab twice. Not taking anything away from the SCAA's material (or their criteria for selecting station leads), but there are many different approaches to coffee education, and none of them cover quite the same stuff.
I do also agree with what Mike and Jared have said.
Me? I have a BS in Mechanical Engineering. Hardly relevant as a barista, trainer, or manager... but it was useful when I was a design engineer. It's also been very useful in starting an equipment tech business. You'll never be able to predict what skills you'll find handy in 5, 10, 25, 50 years. I would absolutely say that a quality, well-rounded education is essential. Looking forward, remember that the average person has at least 5 careers... each one a progression, an arc of different jobs. What you can do now to maximize your odds of succeeding in your first career is relevant... but so are things you can do to maximize your options in future careers.
More specifically, a solid understanding of finance, economics, and accounting seem pretty handy in running a business. Also, don't forget that at some (maybe several) points you will have to submit your qualifications to run a business - to partners, lenders, etc. Try to think of your groundwork steps in terms of building your qualifications to run a successful business, both in real terms and in more visible terms.
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THANK YOU EVERYONE! This really thread is getting me excited about school next year! This is just the reassurance I needed. I really enjoy education, and do think it would make me a better person overall, i was just worried about cost, and you all have assured me that you CAN do both! (pay for starting a business and going to school)
Next year i'm going to go all out, and take classes that interest me (physics, philosophy, business) and view it as an experience to make myself a more rounded person, rather than a means to get a degree.
I am staying in the area and will be able to keep my connections with local businesses, and will continue my coffee education in my free time. I will keep you all posted as to how things are going. I really appreciate the advice.
You guys are actually really helping me out in life, so...Thank you. BX is awesome.
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Permalink Reply by Copper River Coffee and Tea on
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Hey Alex, I actually worked for free for an entire summer at a coffee shop between my junior and senior year at college. I proposed to them that in exchange for my services, that they would teach me what they knew. So, every day, for four to five hours a day I would sweep, dust plants, clean the toilet, stock shelves, eventually taking orders and eventually making drinks. This does not work for everyone, primarily because if you truly want to own a business you must learn to work for free. Of course, in college we privy ourselves to the idea that we are worth this for that amount of time, and not getting paid for your work is very foreign. This is why so many people fail, because they don't have the fortitude or have delayed gratification in order to pull it off. I would say keep going to school, get your degree (if nothing else, so that you're socially acceptable, because that's all it is anyways for the most part), and maybe consider working for free. Again, not for everyone, people like to complain and whine about not getting paid, but what you invest in, whether education or experience, will lead to more riches later on.
Alex Stoffregen said:THANK YOU EVERYONE! This really thread is getting me excited about school next year! This is just the reassurance I needed. I really enjoy education, and do think it would make me a better person overall, i was just worried about cost, and you all have assured me that you CAN do both! (pay for starting a business and going to school)
Next year i'm going to go all out, and take classes that interest me (physics, philosophy, business) and view it as an experience to make myself a more rounded person, rather than a means to get a degree.
I am staying in the area and will be able to keep my connections with local businesses, and will continue my coffee education in my free time. I will keep you all posted as to how things are going. I really appreciate the advice.
You guys are actually really helping me out in life, so...Thank you. BX is awesome.
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Copper River Coffee and Tea said:Hey Alex, I actually worked for free for an entire summer at a coffee shop between my junior and senior year at college. I proposed to them that in exchange for my services, that they would teach me what they knew. So, every day, for four to five hours a day I would sweep, dust plants, clean the toilet, stock shelves, eventually taking orders and eventually making drinks. This does not work for everyone, primarily because if you truly want to own a business you must learn to work for free. Of course, in college we privy ourselves to the idea that we are worth this for that amount of time, and not getting paid for your work is very foreign. This is why so many people fail, because they don't have the fortitude or have delayed gratification in order to pull it off. I would say keep going to school, get your degree (if nothing else, so that you're socially acceptable, because that's all it is anyways for the most part), and maybe consider working for free. Again, not for everyone, people like to complain and whine about not getting paid, but what you invest in, whether education or experience, will lead to more riches later on. -Scott
Alex Stoffregen said:THANK YOU EVERYONE! This really thread is getting me excited about school next year! This is just the reassurance I needed. I really enjoy education, and do think it would make me a better person overall, i was just worried about cost, and you all have assured me that you CAN do both! (pay for starting a business and going to school)
Next year i'm going to go all out, and take classes that interest me (physics, philosophy, business) and view it as an experience to make myself a more rounded person, rather than a means to get a degree.
I am staying in the area and will be able to keep my connections with local businesses, and will continue my coffee education in my free time. I will keep you all posted as to how things are going. I really appreciate the advice.
You guys are actually really helping me out in life, so...Thank you. BX is awesome.
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