Anyone have difficulty training employees to froth with left hand so they can multi-task with right?

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honestly, i run my own caffe, roast for some 7 others and opening a second one. and all this years with coffee i found so hard to explain some small moves why and how with milk or coffee to other owners of caffes that i was always to blame and hated cos of 'my way'. iv traveled around half of the word and just then i saw how good my baristi are, also iv found, how less we know sometimes too...
im for growing of understanding of barista craft, and among people, and among barista community...thats why im so 'hard' and against of super auto machines...
i dont have anything against using computers and auto steam if we talk about quality every time we steam, but is this what we are searching for? whats next, franke full automatic machines instead of la marzocco? so we wont need barista anymore in near future?
but i understand a will to have controlled and all the time good shot and proper milk, my 'hat down' for that if thats honest from you or anyone else...
if is just bcos someone is lazy....well, bring them in front of me, i have a katana....lol
Wayne Oberholzer said:
I agree with what you are all saying. I don't think that using the smart wand is always the best option. but would you rather your Barista get your coffee's out in time and at a consistant standard? Or late, over boiled and textured to shit? Which is the lesser of 2 evils? There is a time and a place for training, and there is a time and a place for consistancy.
i know what you are going to say next. that your barista will get lazy and just use the smart wand all the time. However if they were truely keen on the art they would use it only in times of crisis, or until they can truely master the art of multi tasking.
I strongly believe in building ones passion for the art of being a barista. However do we let that drive to improve on ones ability, hinder our business, by producing less than standard coffee?

CoffeeLady said:
Hail Cheif!
nik orosi said:
if you use auto steam, than you are not a BARISTA, you can work in starbucks but not in my caffe...
auto steam...ridiculous....
Wayne Oberholzer said:
You do know that the Simonelli Aurelia Plus has the option of the smart, temp control wand. Where at a push of a button it will froth your milk to the correct temp and cut off the steam once you hit that temp? Ever think about that? This way you would have both hands free to do whatever it is that you needed to do.
Spoken like a true espresso samurai! I am an espresso Kimosabi(Still Learner).

I wish we had guys like you in South Africa. There are a few people here that have the drive and the passion to really want to learn and better there skills. However majority of them just see it as an easy way to make a little bit of money. if they only knew that if they put in the time and the effort to really improve on their skills and aim to be the best at what they do. They would infact make something of themselves.

I take my hat off to someone like Ishan, Zulu boy and Ben, but to name a few, Have really shown what a little bit of passion and a lot of hard work can really do.

nik orosi said:
honestly, i run my own caffe, roast for some 7 others and opening a second one. and all this years with coffee i found so hard to explain some small moves why and how with milk or coffee to other owners of caffes that i was always to blame and hated cos of 'my way'. iv traveled around half of the word and just then i saw how good my baristi are, also iv found, how less we know sometimes too...
im for growing of understanding of barista craft, and among people, and among barista community...thats why im so 'hard' and against of super auto machines...
i dont have anything against using computers and auto steam if we talk about quality every time we steam, but is this what we are searching for? whats next, franke full automatic machines instead of la marzocco? so we wont need barista anymore in near future?
but i understand a will to have controlled and all the time good shot and proper milk, my 'hat down' for that if thats honest from you or anyone else...
if is just bcos someone is lazy....well, bring them in front of me, i have a katana....lol
Wayne Oberholzer said:
I agree with what you are all saying. I don't think that using the smart wand is always the best option. but would you rather your Barista get your coffee's out in time and at a consistant standard? Or late, over boiled and textured to shit? Which is the lesser of 2 evils? There is a time and a place for training, and there is a time and a place for consistancy.
i know what you are going to say next. that your barista will get lazy and just use the smart wand all the time. However if they were truely keen on the art they would use it only in times of crisis, or until they can truely master the art of multi tasking.
I strongly believe in building ones passion for the art of being a barista. However do we let that drive to improve on ones ability, hinder our business, by producing less than standard coffee?

CoffeeLady said:
Hail Cheif!
nik orosi said:
if you use auto steam, than you are not a BARISTA, you can work in starbucks but not in my caffe...
auto steam...ridiculous....
Wayne Oberholzer said:
You do know that the Simonelli Aurelia Plus has the option of the smart, temp control wand. Where at a push of a button it will froth your milk to the correct temp and cut off the steam once you hit that temp? Ever think about that? This way you would have both hands free to do whatever it is that you needed to do.
as humble as i can be, ask ishan for me...he will tell you some more about me....
Wayne Oberholzer said:
Spoken like a true espresso samurai! I am an espresso Kimosabi(Still Learner).

I wish we had guys like you in South Africa. There are a few people here that have the drive and the passion to really want to learn and better there skills. However majority of them just see it as an easy way to make a little bit of money. if they only knew that if they put in the time and the effort to really improve on their skills and aim to be the best at what they do. They would infact make something of themselves.

I take my hat off to someone like Ishan, Zulu boy and Ben, but to name a few, Have really shown what a little bit of passion and a lot of hard work can really do.

nik orosi said:
honestly, i run my own caffe, roast for some 7 others and opening a second one. and all this years with coffee i found so hard to explain some small moves why and how with milk or coffee to other owners of caffes that i was always to blame and hated cos of 'my way'. iv traveled around half of the word and just then i saw how good my baristi are, also iv found, how less we know sometimes too...
im for growing of understanding of barista craft, and among people, and among barista community...thats why im so 'hard' and against of super auto machines...
i dont have anything against using computers and auto steam if we talk about quality every time we steam, but is this what we are searching for? whats next, franke full automatic machines instead of la marzocco? so we wont need barista anymore in near future?
but i understand a will to have controlled and all the time good shot and proper milk, my 'hat down' for that if thats honest from you or anyone else...
if is just bcos someone is lazy....well, bring them in front of me, i have a katana....lol
Wayne Oberholzer said:
I agree with what you are all saying. I don't think that using the smart wand is always the best option. but would you rather your Barista get your coffee's out in time and at a consistant standard? Or late, over boiled and textured to shit? Which is the lesser of 2 evils? There is a time and a place for training, and there is a time and a place for consistancy.
i know what you are going to say next. that your barista will get lazy and just use the smart wand all the time. However if they were truely keen on the art they would use it only in times of crisis, or until they can truely master the art of multi tasking.
I strongly believe in building ones passion for the art of being a barista. However do we let that drive to improve on ones ability, hinder our business, by producing less than standard coffee?

CoffeeLady said:
Hail Cheif!
nik orosi said:
if you use auto steam, than you are not a BARISTA, you can work in starbucks but not in my caffe...
auto steam...ridiculous....
Wayne Oberholzer said:
You do know that the Simonelli Aurelia Plus has the option of the smart, temp control wand. Where at a push of a button it will froth your milk to the correct temp and cut off the steam once you hit that temp? Ever think about that? This way you would have both hands free to do whatever it is that you needed to do.
As far as the auto temp thing goes-- I've found (with myself anyway) that with practice, you can get really spot on with your hand temp. I usually can hold the pitcher with one hand around the base or the side while doing something else until I feel it beginning to reach that temperature, and then switch back to the handle with one hand and the other on the side of the pitcher when it's almost to temp. Keeping a thermometer on hand is good, because it also helps to throw it in right before you pour just to see where you're at every few days, and if your perception is slowly getting off.

Then again, on machines I've experienced with a super powerful steam wand, like a synesso-- there isn't a lot of time before the milk reaches temp (especially for small drinks, cappuccinos etc.) so multi-tasking isn't really an option.
Stephanie Ratanas said:
...Then again, on machines I've experienced with a super powerful steam wand, like a synesso-- there isn't a lot of time before the milk reaches temp (especially for small drinks, cappuccinos etc.) so multi-tasking isn't really an option.

Ahh.... you raise a good point. Eternity is steaming milk for 2 20oz lattes with a wimpy steamer. Totally different situation than for a 12oz drink on a rocketship.

After reading CoffeeLady's post on the soy thread I understand much better... if you are steaming milk for multiple drinks most of the time this is a far, far bigger issue. Even I multitask on the 2x20oz pitchers.
Yep, again I say - Hail to those who know! Thanks Brady!

Brady said:
Stephanie Ratanas said:
...Then again, on machines I've experienced with a super powerful steam wand, like a synesso-- there isn't a lot of time before the milk reaches temp (especially for small drinks, cappuccinos etc.) so multi-tasking isn't really an option.

Ahh.... you raise a good point. Eternity is steaming milk for 2 20oz lattes with a wimpy steamer. Totally different situation than for a 12oz drink on a rocketship.

After reading CoffeeLady's post on the soy thread I understand much better... if you are steaming milk for multiple drinks most of the time this is a far, far bigger issue. Even I multitask on the 2x20oz pitchers.
YOu know, I'm a purist: like most of you I dislike the idea of an automatic steam wand or whatever it is we were discussing (the Aurelia option) but you know, I'm considering one of those lever-style tampers. I hate the idea but I have had recurring pains from an old rotator cuff injury while tamping and it's not getting better. I also have a tiny barista on hand who has a real hard time hitting 30 lbs.

At the risk of thread-hijacking, what do the rest of us purists think about the lever tampers?
this is like quick sand...im falling into it...
you are actually right...i used to have dinamometric tamper and it was actually good. now im having nuova simonelli mythos grinder with build in tamper and even im not using it, when i have some new barista, im letting them to play with. you are able to fix the pressure and works great. another great tool for controlled working and constant quality...
but you know me...kind of hating all that equipment now...(even i started with that all, im a shamed....)
its just strange for me, you start with it all, than you start to compete and change your self, then you win and see others how they work and change your self even more, then you start travel on competitions around the world and see even more crazy stuff and start training even more and in a split second you are a diff person with diff technical ways and its not hate over automatic machines or tampers, but your skills are so diff sometimes that you dont think of the past when you were working that way anymore...
so pardon me for sometimes being 'hard' on auto steam or tamp or whatever auto...
Stickman said:
YOu know, I'm a purist: like most of you I dislike the idea of an automatic steam wand or whatever it is we were discussing (the Aurelia option) but you know, I'm considering one of those lever-style tampers. I hate the idea but I have had recurring pains from an old rotator cuff injury while tamping and it's not getting better. I also have a tiny barista on hand who has a real hard time hitting 30 lbs.
At the risk of thread-hijacking, what do the rest of us purists think about the lever tampers?
Remeber.... not everyone can multitask! If there is potential keep woking with them... If not, cut your losses!
Attachments:
I've trained my baristas to froth milk with both the left and right hand and on both sides of the machine....especially when they've never touched an espresso machine in their life. That way they are comfortable being able to froth milk on any side of the machine if it gets busy or when we need 2 baristas on a machine.
Kevin K. Leffler said:
Remeber.... not everyone can multitask! If there is potential keep woking with them... If not, cut your losses!

Hey Kevin... does your attachment relate to this discussion?
umm, is it a "sign" from the coffee gods? :-)

Brady said:
Kevin K. Leffler said:
Remeber.... not everyone can multitask! If there is potential keep woking with them... If not, cut your losses!

Hey Kevin... does your attachment relate to this discussion?

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