I am starting a small coffee bar and most of the business will be togo in paper cups.  I was thinking of maxing out at 16oz for coffee and espresso drinks.  What does everyone think of this?  My thought is that by the time you get to the end of even a 20oz coffee it doesnt taste as good.

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chris, best of luck in your new coffee bar...for 2011!  where will it be located?

as far as the drink sizes, i offer regular brew in 12, 16, and 20 oz.  i brought in the 20 oz about 2 years ago, and i'm glad i did.  they account for roughly 15-20% of regular brew sales.  my prices for regular brew are 2.25, 2.50, and 3.00, respectively.  with the specialty drinks i offer the same sizes, and generally the prices are 3.00, 4.00, and 4.75/5.00.  the 20 oz specialty drink accounts for roughly 10% of that categories sales.

i tend to drink my coffees fairly quickly, so i don't usually detect any change in taste by the time i see white at the bottom of the cup!  and, several of my customers empty out a whole lot faster than i do!

 

take care,

sage

the coffee hound

We went with 8 oz for Con panna & Macchiatos.


Chris said:

Yeah the inventory piece definitely is another good reason to max at 16.

 

I was probably not going to even offer an 8oz.

 

What size does everyone use for macchiattos and con pannas?

Tommy said:

I think maxing out at 16 oz is a good idea. 20 oz is simply too much, and it will effect your operations via efficiency flow (too many cups..), For example what I do is 8oz 12oz and 16oz for to-gom,  in-house cup (I utilize a 12-oz mug option). This way, your inventory control/operation will run smoothly, and by having a managable cup size selections, you are able to keep low inventory overhead & easy to monitor for re-ordering too..As long as you serve high quality drinks..that is what's important.. happy new year!!!

 

 

We use a 3oz demi for espresso macchiatos.


We don't offer a latte macchiato.

 

Chris said:

What size does everyone use for macchiattos and con pannas?

 

come on... coffee is a beverage that depends largely on proportion. make it that large will certainly destroy the experience for each cup.

Chris said:
I was thinking of offering a 12 and 16 for brewed coffee.  A 16 for lattes and a 12 or 16 for cappuccinos
suggestions?

David said:
come on... coffee is a beverage that depends largely on proportion. make it that large will certainly destroy the experience for each cup.

Chris said:
I was thinking of offering a 12 and 16 for brewed coffee.  A 16 for lattes and a 12 or 16 for cappuccinos

I get a 20oz coffee everyday and sure enough i never drink the last 3-4 oz of cold stale coffee.  Never noticed this habit until I read the blog here and tossed the cup in my hand as i was reading!  

Call it Large and Medium...dump the 20oz in favor of streamlined operations and better quality so they never get the last cold sip and stale palate.  

From the Cafe design vantage; it will absolutley save precious time in moving the line during peak periods.  If you ran time lapsed video and watched the management of that extra cup you might see as many as 2-3 more sales moved when it counts - when the last person will not get into line because it didn't move.  I have a weird perspective with time and motion over consumer rational for sizes.

Do I serve myself and buy a cup or will you make it my way and send me to the condiment station?

 

We can have a cafe designer walk you through both scenarios.  Always here to help. Hit Tim at tim@m4r.com and see how it all plays out on paper.

if it were really up to me i'd be making it with 2 size, depending on ur espresso blend (the proportion for the shot with milk, around 6-7oz for regular and a 12-13oz for large. stick to it. and since u're focusing more on customers on the go, why not promote people to bring their tumblers if they insists in making it larger than the sizes you offer, you can change a bit here and there to get the proportion better for their request if you/them like to.

*why not make it so like commercial cafes, sell some tumblers.

 

Some very nice benefits you can get from this method, 1stly, people see your professionalism in customer service as you serve them as how they like it while in the mean time u get to tell people why u insist in not having larger sizes. ie, stale coffee, proportion, etc. Having customized beverage (ie, tumblers and sorts) is another window of opportunity to bond with customers, leading to getting more regulars that knows you're willing to go the extra mile to bring them a better cup.

 

btw, about the thing i say about propotion. I always find that 6oz is the best way to enjoy lattes or capps kinda drink.

1 shot + milk --> +/- 6oz is the traditional proportion,

so to get proportion right, 2 shots should be required for a 12 oz drink, and 3 shots for 18oz?

I use to think so, but i found out that it doesn't work that way, making it larger requires different measurement (depending on your coffee) in order to get a balance for the experience, and that's the reason many Barista I know would go against the ego based culture of larger is better.

 

Anyway, it's just my 5 cents. I do hope it helps though.

 

Chris said:

suggestions?

David said:
come on... coffee is a beverage that depends largely on proportion. make it that large will certainly destroy the experience for each cup.

Chris said:
I was thinking of offering a 12 and 16 for brewed coffee.  A 16 for lattes and a 12 or 16 for cappuccinos


This is very practical and smart...


Jack Groot said:

In the decision to "carry or not carry" there are a couple of other things to keep in mind. If you need to spend time every other transaction defending why you don't do something, it may not be in your best interest to not do it. Also, many- may I say most- customers really don't care about all the details. They just want to give you their money and "Can I get my drink please thank you very much" (unless your shop is "built for the coffee geek"). And at the end of the day a business exists to serve the customer what they want, more than what the business wants. That is what leads to longevity. Customers coming back everyday all year long for years on end.

What you say is quite fair and true, so if all Chris wants to have is just plan good business, then why not copy business model from sbux. It is proven to work. Extremely well.

 


Adam Ptasnik said:


This is very practical and smart...


Jack Groot said:

In the decision to "carry or not carry" there are a couple of other things to keep in mind. If you need to spend time every other transaction defending why you don't do something, it may not be in your best interest to not do it. Also, many- may I say most- customers really don't care about all the details. They just want to give you their money and "Can I get my drink please thank you very much" (unless your shop is "built for the coffee geek"). And at the end of the day a business exists to serve the customer what they want, more than what the business wants. That is what leads to longevity. Customers coming back everyday all year long for years on end.
I did this at the cafe I used to manage. We dropped 20oz espresso (kept it for everything else), and explained to customers that it was a quality and speed of service thing. There was only a couple customers who didn't buy that and complained about it a lot. Hopefully you have enough quality/service valuing customers who will see the benefit and accept the change. It worked for me and I did it after the store had been open for five years with 20oz everything already on the menu. Go for it!

Since when does a 16oz taste good let alone a 20oz?

*like

David Robson said:

Since when does a 16oz taste good let alone a 20oz?

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