How to introduce one size cappuccino on the menu and to the customer.
So starting in October we are rolling out the whole no menu board thing with only a small printed menu framed and posted in an inconspicuous place. On this menu we are going to offer only one size cappuccino (8oz paper cup, or 6oz ceramic cap cup) with the larger sizes (12 and 16oz) as lattes.
We do have regular customers that come in, walk up, and order large caps (currently 16 oz) every day. Obviously we dont want to loose these customers, and we dont want to come off as snobby jack asses. However, we really want this to work, and we really want people to understand why we are doing this.
I know that some of you guys have done this already. How do we interact with the customer without coming across as "the snobby barista" yet still getting people to understand that a "cappuccino" is a very specific thing. Any advise would be immensely appreciated .
Thanx,
Andy
We do have regular customers that come in, walk up, and order large caps (currently 16 oz) every day. Obviously we dont want to loose these customers, and we dont want to come off as snobby jack asses. However, we really want this to work, and we really want people to understand why we are doing this.
I know that some of you guys have done this already. How do we interact with the customer without coming across as "the snobby barista" yet still getting people to understand that a "cappuccino" is a very specific thing. Any advise would be immensely appreciated .
Thanx,
Andy
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Joe Marrocco on
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At Kaldi's we have a traditional menu and a regular menu. This is really a great way to handle it. The main thing it does is show value for the traditional beverages.
My two cents on the true definition of a traditional cap: I sum it up in one word, delicious! (or balance,... but that is not as intriguing.)
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Permalink Reply by Bryan Wray on
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I'm all about a double in 6oz. It's not correct, but it's (IMO) much tastier. We'll accommodate a request for a one shot trad capp, though.
-bry
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Permalink Reply by Mike McGinness on
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Joe Marrocco said:At Kaldi's we have a traditional menu and a regular menu. This is really a great way to handle it. The main thing it does is show value for the traditional beverages.
My two cents on the true definition of a traditional cap: I sum it up in one word, delicious! (or balance,... but that is not as intriguing.)
I also have a Traditional and American Coffeehouse menu. Always like the USBC judging/rules descriptive definition of a cap':
3.2.2 Cappuccino A. A cappuccino is a coffee and milk beverage that should produce a harmonious balance of rich, sweet milk and espresso.
Technical details of the beverage come later, it's the "harmonious balance" description that sings to me.
I'm also with Bryan my House serving slightly ristretto double shot 6oz caps, while the USBC technical definition is single shot served in 5 to 6oz cup (with handle).
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Logan Demmy said:No arguments here, it just seems odd to sight a law from Italy. I was kind of unaware that a trade craft was subject to a foreign country's law. Coffee is an art form open to personal interpretations, governed by (in my opinion) guidelines at best.
While I fully agree coffee is an art, it is also a science. Without fully understanding the science the art has no foundation. Italian law aside from 2009 USBC Rules & Regulations:
3.2.2 Cappuccino A. A cappuccino is a coffee and milk beverage that should produce a harmonious balance of rich, sweet milk and espresso.
2009 USBC Rules and Regulations Page 8
B. The cappuccino is prepared with one (1) single shot of espresso, textured milk and approximately 1
centimeter of foam depth (assessed vertically).
C. A traditional cappuccino is a five- to six-ounce beverage (150 to 180ml).
D. The cappuccinos may be served with latte art or traditional style.
E. The cappuccinos must be served in a five- to six-ounce (150 to 180ml) cup with a handle.
F. Any additional toppings, sugar, spices or powdered flavorings are not allowed.
G. Cappuccinos must be served to the judges with a spoon, napkin and water.
Whether a shop decides to tightly adhere to USBC standards, or like many use double shots is a whole nuther can of worms...:-) Never the less calling any Big Gulp beverage a cappuccino seems too far outside the 'norm, as does adding any flavoring and calling it a cap'.
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Permalink Reply by Jared Rutledge on
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afaik, they JUST changed it this year so it was 1 cm of foam depth. all the previous years it was 2cm (with a single 6 oz. latte being 1cm) but this year they were both 1cm. from what rob forsyth (wbc rules committee guy) said to me, they're changing it back. i recall him mentioning to me in 2007 when i worked for him that the committee wanted to switch it to 1cm, but then of course you couldn't tell the difference between a latte and a cappuccino.
the issue with a single vs. a double in a 6 oz. capp, to me, seems to be that single portafilters SUCK and you don't want to be wasting half your shots in a cafe setting.
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Permalink Reply by Jason Haeger on
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Since when do single filterbaskets suck?
Jared Rutledge said:afaik, they JUST changed it this year so it was 1 cm of foam depth. all the previous years it was 2cm (with a single 6 oz. latte being 1cm) but this year they were both 1cm. from what rob forsyth (wbc rules committee guy) said to me, they're changing it back. i recall him mentioning to me in 2007 when i worked for him that the committee wanted to switch it to 1cm, but then of course you couldn't tell the difference between a latte and a cappuccino.
the issue with a single vs. a double in a 6 oz. capp, to me, seems to be that single portafilters SUCK and you don't want to be wasting half your shots in a cafe setting.
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all the ones i've used have. i've never seen one that wasn't made to hold about 13-14 grams, and if you dose 7-9g you end up with a ton of space between the grouphead and the puck, and a very wet puck and uneven extraction ensues. i also notice the puck is far more susceptible to shifting when tamping, and i'm pretty happy with my tamping technique.
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So what you meant to say is that you have never been able to get good results out of one. What you said was a collective, "They all suck".
By the way.. since when was a wet puck considered a bad thing? And if it is, what is the reasoning for this assumption?
13-14g is FAR too much for a SINGLE espresso anyway, so that's not a reason. Neither is the "ton of space", that I'm willing to bet is not as much space as you assume. Granted, the grind setting will likely be different, and it does take more attention to detail, but it's not the basket that is the problem in this case.
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IIRC agree your AFAIK :-) Believe the change was pushed to make free pour latte art easier on a cappuccino. Personally 1cm seems a bit on the thin side to me for a cappuccino.
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well, the WBC said a wet puck was a bad thing until a year ago when they did away with a lot of post-pull examination (and coincidentally made cappuccinos 1cm) to focus on the taste of the shot.
when i dose 9g in the astoria single basket i've worked on for the last couple months, it sits (tamped) about 3mm below the ridge on the basket. i've always heard the proper distance between puck and group should be just enough to lightly push a nickel into the surface of the puck, and this is probably 3x that. in order to get good contact distance, i'd have to dose 13-14g, and like you said, that's basically pulling a double ristretto.
i may have generalized to an extent unacceptable to you, and i apologize. however, by your own admission the pulling of a single requires a different grind setting, and in a busy retail location that's not really feasible. the baskets are part of the problem if they can hold nearly double what a single dose is.
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The problem with the generalization of the nickel impression rule is that there is no sound basis for it. Neither is there a sound basis for the wetness or dryness of a puck.
I do agree that some baskets are harder to work with than others, and I have used a basket that took the same grind setting. (I don't remember which one)
A local shop here has 1 grinder for singles and triples (which, coincidentally, share a grind setting) and another for doubles, another for decaf, and then another for the variation espresso (when it is available.. like a SO).
I just think that saying that "single baskets suck" is not in agreement with the reality, and I don't think it wise for anyone to sweep away the idea just because someone on some forum said that they all suck, if you catch my drift.
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I think the best way to fight the whole "single baskets suck" thing is to make some sort of competition involving bottomless single PF extraction shots. Any takers?
(This is a joke, BTW... but would be fun if we had takers)
-bry
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