Dear All,

 

My first question in "Equipment & Tech" so please be gentle with me. If it is in the wrong section let me know.

 

We are a newly opened in Birmingham, England and try to be consistent with our extraction by adjusting the grind or the timer (we have a Anfim Super Caimano Barista Model).  I know that if there an increase in humidity then we need to make the grind coarser. Generally, we only need to make minor modifications, since we use the same roaster, same blend and use the beans within 2-3 weeks of roasting.

 

Now recently the weather in England has been up and down, hot, dry , humid, damp , cool. So we have had, both doors open, one door open, both doors closed, machine left on over night, machine turned off overnight.

 

We normally log our grind setting, dry weight, extraction time to get 28g liquid. To allow us to make minor adjustments when needed (i.e after quiet period, new bag opened etc). But over a 2 day period I noticed over 15 shots logged (and thrown away) because different baristas (including myself) were not happy. Thats over a quarter of a kilo.

 

One the one point, its good that we are looking at our extraction. But as a business owner that is not acceptable. 

 

Can somebody give me a general guideline on how my extraction would change in the circumstances described above (doors, weather, machine etc), so the the baristas can make bigger adjustments straightway, as opposed to making lots of mini test adjustments, only to make more mini test adjustments.

 

I hope the question makes sense.

 

As usual , thanks in advance.

 

Regards

 

Dav 

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15 sink shots doesn't seem like a crazy amount to dump(all though Ive never counted how many I dump in a day). It probably has just as much to do with your different baristas as it does the weather change. How many did you expect to be dumping a day?

 

I appreciate that didn't baristas tamp differently, but the first few weeks we were all pretty consistant. The 15 sink shots are both double shots at 18g. So that is over 1/4 Kilo. Since we are new , we are only going through 1 kilo a day, we sell a lot of teas as well. So basically throwing away 1/4 of you whole usage seems a lot
There really isn't a way to get around making many minor adjustments.  I know of a shop that pulls/tastes and dumps 90 shots to get exactly what they want before they open their doors every day.  I'm not necessarily advocating that, but it does put things into perspective.  I understand and appreciate that you are wanting to streamline your business and cut losses, but those are simply operating costs. just my 2 cents

Wait, you said "over a 2 day period I noticed over 15 shots logged (and thrown away)". So that's 7.5 sink shots per day not 15 averaged @1k beans used per day = 2k beans total used with 15 sinkers. That makes it more like 1/8k per 1k in beans or about 1 in 8 shots a sinker at a slow pace with wildly changing environment conditions. Now maybe it doesn't seem quite as bad :) (as an owner yeah all waste is hard to swallow, but it's better to build a reputation for quality than serve sub-standard shots)

 

 

90 shots before opening seems excessive, since the humidity will probably change throughout the day, so surely they would have to go through the whole again throughout the day. I assume that they roast their own,

Daniel Williamson said:
There really isn't a way to get around making many minor adjustments.  I know of a shop that pulls/tastes and dumps 90 shots to get exactly what they want before they open their doors every day. 
Sorry, that was misleading on my part. It was fom the afternoon of one day to the morning of the next day. So I classed that as one day. But nevertheless, has anybody got any general guidelines on the how the grind would change for the conditions I described.

Mike McGinness said:

Wait, you said "over a 2 day period I noticed over 15 shots logged (and thrown away)". So that's 7.5 sink shots per day not 15 averaged @1k beans used per day = 2k beans total used with 15 sinkers. That makes it more like 1/8k per 1k in beans or about 1 in 8 shots a sinker at a slow pace with wildly changing environment conditions. Now maybe it doesn't seem quite as bad :) (as an owner yeah all waste is hard to swallow, but it's better to build a reputation for quality than serve sub-standard shots)

 

 

Really, 90 shots everyday to dial in ONE coffee One grinder? If pulling doubles like most shops that's about 3.3lb of coffee at average wholesale cost $9+/lb equals $30. Who wastes that much coffee each and ever day, about $1000 per month, before even opening their doors? I find that very hard to believe.

 

Which also means they'd be spending a good hour and a half each day to dial in the coffee. So with cost of labor another $18 or so per day make that almost $50 cost per day beans and labor to dial in. Very VERY hard to believe the varacity of the statement.

Daniel Williamson said:

There really isn't a way to get around making many minor adjustments.  I know of a shop that pulls/tastes and dumps 90 shots to get exactly what they want before they open their doors every day.  I'm not necessarily advocating that, but it does put things into perspective.  I understand and appreciate that you are wanting to streamline your business and cut losses, but those are simply operating costs. just my 2 cents

Unfortunately it's really tough to anticipate how wildly changing environment conditions will affect the shot before it's pulled! To an extent with experience you'll build a bit of intuition and make closer adjustments on the fly, but it still won't be exact. The good news is the busier you get pulling shots more often, the easier making adjustments gets versus long periods of inactivity.

 

As a fellow shop owner I feel your pain. Now imagine three locations with currently 10 grinders to keep dialed in!


Dav said:

Sorry, that was misleading on my part. It was fom the afternoon of one day to the morning of the next day. So I classed that as one day. But nevertheless, has anybody got any general guidelines on the how the grind would change for the conditions I described.

Mike McGinness said:

Wait, you said "over a 2 day period I noticed over 15 shots logged (and thrown away)". So that's 7.5 sink shots per day not 15 averaged @1k beans used per day = 2k beans total used with 15 sinkers. That makes it more like 1/8k per 1k in beans or about 1 in 8 shots a sinker at a slow pace with wildly changing environment conditions. Now maybe it doesn't seem quite as bad :) (as an owner yeah all waste is hard to swallow, but it's better to build a reputation for quality than serve sub-standard shots)

 

 

Ok, thanks for the feedback. Yes we will get better and busier, Thanks for all the input guys and "Sharing the Pain" :-)

Mike McGinness said:

Unfortunately it's really tough to anticipate how wildly changing environment conditions will affect the shot before it's pulled! To an extent with experience you'll build a bit of intuition and make closer adjustments on the fly, but it still won't be exact. The good news is the busier you get pulling shots more often, the easier making adjustments gets versus long periods of inactivity.

 

As a fellow shop owner I feel your pain. Now imagine three locations with currently 10 grinders to keep dialed in!


 

I'd like to start of by saying that 90 shots pulled before opening is rediculous. Espresso shots are sort of like snowflakes, each one is a little different. There are so many factors at play when dialing in the grind that at times, it can seem daunting. As a barista I'm constantly searching for "the perfect shot." There are parameters and ratios to help guide us in this quest but it is by no means an exact science. Over time you'll be able to pick up on the subtle changes in the espresso throughout the day and make the adjustments accordingly as to lower your waste. One way is to keep timers on your machine. Time out your shots within your specified parameters and work to keep them within it. Notice when the shot drop and blondes. Slight changes in the drop and blonde can indicate a need for change such are lowering or increasing your dose and/or grind. An unfortunate part of our industry is that at times, waste is unavoidable. But as mentioned in a previous post, it's better to be known for quality if you want longevity in the "speciality" coffee arena and if that's not your goal, just franchise a starbucks and get it over with already.

Starbucks doesn't franchise, but their "cost of quality" markout for whole bean espresso is 15%.  

 

Beyond what you've already mentioned, tell what location in the store is the grinder?  Do you have a drive through?  I ask because then you have a window opening and closing constantly.   And it seems over here on this side of the pond a lot of equipment is located next to the DT window.  15 double shots a day, even with the low volume you have, doesn't stand out to me as excessively high.  Given that they are spread out over the course of a business day.  BTW, in a store with high standards and high volume, I would question anyone who claims to achieve their shot quality metrics greater then 90% of shots pulled.  And you haven't even mentioned the espresso machine.  Also at the rate of your business, it would take over a month (my guess - a very informed guess) just to break in the burrs.  Assuming this wasn't done at the start.  

Hi, No the shop isn't a Drive Thru. The grinder is about 15 feet from the door. The grinder is an Anfin Super Caimano Barista model with Timer and we have had it for about 3 months. So it is definately broken in. The machine is a Synesso Cyncra 3 group.

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