Cleaning an old grinder hopper and dosing chamber?
We purchased a used grinder for our cafe opening next month and the inside of the hopper and the dosing chamber are heavily stained with rancid coffee oils. Can anyone give me some advice on how best to clean the hopper and dosing chamber insides effectively without damaging the plastic? Simply soap, hot water & elbow grease? Rubbing alcohol? Or is there something tailor made for this type of cleaning job? Thanks for your help! - Cash c[_]
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Bryan Wray on
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Jay... Did you do any sort of shootout or anything? Or are the ingredients lists like nearly the same...? Do you backflush with it or just for soaking of coffee related things (I'm picturing Beehouses, steaming pitchers and drip trays at the moment)? Obviously these are things I could do myself easily, but I trust your advice (usually, lol) and if you've seen nothing but positive results, then... psh...
Man... I tell ya, if this is along the same lines as the whole Minute Rice vs. Grindz thing I'ma be pissed.
-bry
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Permalink Reply by Jay Caragay on
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Bryan-
I tend to look at these things a bit more pragmatically than most. No, I did not any sort of "shootout" between OxyClean and Cafiza - hell, I couldn't be bothered to do a "shootout" between Cafiza, JoeGlo and the others. For me, the question is: does it get the job done? I want clean components without residue.
We still use the Cafiza-type product for cleaning the espresso machine - though that's more because we've still got bottles of the stuff around. And it becomes very difficult to do any sort of evaluation of the products because I don't recall any of the companies including ingredient lists on their bottles. Even Advil tells you that its raw ingredient.
The OxyClean we use to clean our vac pot filters and it's doing a helluva job. So much so that we'll probably give it a go in the espresso machine later.
As far as the rest, like beehouse drippers, steam pitchers and the like, we send those down to dish for normal cleaning, a thorough rinse, hand drying and polishing.
To me, it is very much like the rice v. grindz thing, but it's nothing to get worked up over. Some people want a labeled product to rely on and trust. Others know better.
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Permalink Reply by Chris on
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Jay Caragay said:To me, it is very much like the rice v. grindz thing, but it's nothing to get worked up over. Some people want a labeled product to rely on and trust. Others know better.
There is a huge difference between relying on a brand name like a crutch, and relying on nan MSDS and an FDA foodsafe rating. At least there is when sitting in a witness chair. When I was slingin' as a pro, I'd be really hesitant to expose my clientele to anything that I wasn't sure would harm them or not. I ain't saying that OxyClean is harmful, but that I don't have anything that tells me that it might not be, so I'm going to err on the side of safety when it comes to customer health issues and liabilities.
Anything less would be rude and stupid.
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Chris-
Perhaps you know something more than I do - because I certainly have never seen an MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) or an ingredient list for any of the commercial coffee cleaners.
Or perhaps you missed that part?
Chris said:Jay Caragay said:To me, it is very much like the rice v. grindz thing, but it's nothing to get worked up over. Some people want a labeled product to rely on and trust. Others know better.
There is a huge difference between relying on a brand name like a crutch, and relying on nan MSDS and an FDA foodsafe rating. At least there is when sitting in a witness chair. When I was slingin' as a pro, I'd be really hesitant to expose my clientele to anything that I wasn't sure would harm them or not. I ain't saying that OxyClean is harmful, but that I don't have anything that tells me that it might not be, so I'm going to err on the side of safety when it comes to customer health issues and liabilities.
Anything less would be rude and stupid.
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Looky what I found: http://www.urnex.com/msds/MSDSPuroCaffP20Powderw.pdf
and also:
http://www.melrosechem.com/english/msd_eng/hs0853.pdf
I used the super secret search button.
-bry
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Okay, I took a look at the online MSDS and we see that PuroCaf is Sodium Carbonate Peroxyhydrate.
And while the MSDS from Quebec's Melrose Chemicals, the US Dept of Health and Human Services lists an OxiClean product that's a bit different:
According to that MSDS, OxiClean is comprised of both Sodium Carbonate and Sodium Percarbonate.
Without actually waking up my JHU Genius for a consultation, I'll venture out with what little chemistry I know (quite possibly incompetently bolstered by a visit to Wikipedia). The only ingredient of PuroCaf is Sodium Carbonate Peroxyhydrate - according to Wikipedia, it is an oxidizing agent that releases hydrogen peroxide and sodium carbonate, and is a major component of OxiClean.
A question popped into my mind as I was reading: if SCP releases hydrogen peroxide and sodium carbonate once dissolved in water, why does Oxiclean also include Sodium Carbonate as a major ingredient separate from SCP? According again to Wikipedia, sodium carbonate by itself, in addition to removing oil, grease and alcohol stains, also prevents magnesium and calcium ions from bonding with whatever detergent is being used, increasing that detergents effectiveness. Based on that very shaky understanding, I can only guess that the Sodium Carbonate is there to "bolster" the SCP ingredient.
Which leads me to believe that both PuroCaf (and ostensibly Cafiza and JoeGlo) and OxiClean are essentially the same (or at least very similar).
Taking this even further, now that we know that the main ingredient in both products is Sodium Carbonate Peroxyhydrate, we can then go to our local chemical supply company and purchase the chemical directly, and for what I would expect to be a significant savings. Of course, this presumes that your operations goes through a significant amount of cleaner in a year and that you can handle purchasing and storing chemicals in what is probably fifty pound sacks or boxes.
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Wow... I am soooo glad that my listing of the MSDS was enough to have you go on that internet hunt, lol. Otherwise, if it would have taken more than like... 4 hours or so, I probably would have gotten curious enough to do my own hunting. Instead, I cleaned a bathroom... which btw, required no Oxyclean, Oxiclean, Purocaf or Cafiza ;)
-bry
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Jay Caragay said:Perhaps you know something more than I do - because I certainly have never seen an MSDS
Well, The Google is strong with this one...
so I know where to find them...
Jay Caragay said:
Chris said:Or perhaps you missed that part?I'm going to err on the side of safety when it comes to customer health issues and liabilities.
Anything less would be rude and stupid.
Nope, that was the part in which I was suggesting that I would be either rude or stupid if I were to introduce something to my customers with out being absolutely sure that it was safe for them.
Cafiza, Purocaff, and JoeGlow are all products that I am familiar with, know that they have been tested foodsafe, read and follow the directions on, and so I'm comfortable using them. OxyClean is something that I'm fairly ignorant of past it's household uses, so I'm not comfortable being rude and stupid with the health of my customers.
And the assumptions that you're making regarding the organic chemistry using Wikipedia as a resource and your self-proclaimed shaky understanding would scare the crap out of me. But I've spent a fair amount of time in court.
Again, my first fear of the OxyClean method is that they make a foodsafe version of OxyClean. That makes me wonder what's dangerous in the regular OxyCLean that they had to change it to get it rated as foodsafe?
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Chris-
Sounds to me like you're just a shill for the coffee cleaning companies.
My understanding of chemistry aside, the MSDS data clearly states that the primary ingredient in any of these cleaners is Sodium Carbonate Peroxyhydrate - which means they are, essentially, the same and work in the same manner.
Continue doing as you must, but I'm comfortable and confident in my choices of cleaning agents.
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Jay Caragay said:Chris-
Sounds to me like you're just a shill for the coffee cleaning companies.
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That's because you are clearly not paying attention.
I have three different types of cleaning supplies given me by three different folk from three different coffee related events that I've participated in as a volunteer.
You could use all kinds of stuff. The reason that I suggested a coffee cleaner is: It has been verified to clean without giving your customers the squirts, or worse; you probably have some in your shop already.
Given that, the only reason that someone would suggest something else with no certification to be safe for their customers that isn't already a staple in a coffee shop is...
Shill?
I think the Lady doth protest too much.
Use what you like, be responsible to your customers. I am not saying in any way shape or form that any oxy/oxi product is *not* safe, just that I'm *not sure* that it's safe. And not being sure is enough to keep me from exposing any potential customer/friend to the potential hassle or injury.
Two harmless chemicals can often combine to be remarkably hazardous.
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Permalink Reply by John P on
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According to the Human and Environmental Risk Assessment Project.
RE: Sodium Percabonate.
"Sodium percarbonate is mainly used as a bleaching chemical in laundry detergents, laundry additives and machine dishwashing products. The pure product (100 %) is also available for consumers as a laundry additive. Sodium percarbonate may also be used in products for drain cleaning, multipurpose cleaning or for denture cleansing."
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"Acute cases of oral poisoning or effects on human eyes, due to accidental or intentional overexposure to sodium percarbonate, have not been found in the literature. Based on the available data, the use of sodium percarbonate in household cleaning products has no adverse effect on consumers."
RE: Sodium Carbonate.
"...Therefore there is no concern about a possible systemic toxic effect after short term or repeated exposure to the substance. No genotoxic effects in bacteria or teratogenic effects in rabbits, rats and mice have been reported. The only critical endpoint for sodium carbonate seems to be local irritation. "
... "Based on the available data, the use of sodium carbonate in household cleaning products has neither an adverse effect on the aquatic ecosystem nor an adverse effect on consumers."
A thorough search will show that these two substances are often used in conjunction with no adverse effects.
No more than washing something with dishsoap and not rinsing it thoroughly. And if you're not rinsing thoroughly... well, you're an idiot and no one can save you. Good times. :)
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... damn you John, this was just getting entertaining... haha.
-bry
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