I posted this in the Trainers&Education group, but, have not gotten any replies yet, so, I'm posting again here:

Since I have been making hand tamped quality espresso, I have always been trained (and subsequently trained others) to pull ristrettos between .75 oz to 1oz with the target extraction of 25-28 seconds. I believe this to be how espresso tastes best, and I'm fairly sure most of you would agree for the most part.

What I am wondering right now is: How would you pull a great tasting LONG shot of 1.5 oz or more? How can you get extra volume without pale blond bitterness? What do you do differently than you do for a ristretto? Same grind, different dose? Longer extraction time? DO you let the shot run over 30 seconds? How do you respond when a customer asks for a long shot?

I find a lot of L.A. to still be surprisingly behind other pockets of the country regarding knowledge and appreciation of quality coffee and espresso. Many consumers are so used to automated machine shots, we actually get requests like "Long double espresso, run through twice.", meaning push the automatic Long button to let water run through the same grounds twice! Yech! (Although some of our stores have semi-automatics with the pre-programmed buttons, I always teach people to use the manual button, to watch their shots and stop them when they hit the right timing and volume.) When I get this "long, run through twice" request, I try to guide the customer toward a very short americano instead. However, there are still some people who just want a 4 oz double.

I also recently came across the term "normale" that I had never seen before. If a ristretto is .75-1 oz, is a normale 1-1.5 and a lungo 1.5-2? Or something like that?

Any thoughts or techniques on dosing, packing and pulling long shots would be much appreciated!

Thanks!
Lita Lopez
groundwork coffee co.

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I'm guessing you're talking about a single 3/4 oz ristretto. First of all: awesome.
Secondly, I never pull my espresso long. Its always a ristretto. When someone asks for it long, I explain to them why I do it this way, and I would be more than glad to make them those super mini americanos. It's only happened a few times to me, but if someone REALLY wont take this for an answer, I then gladly explain that Starbucks is around the corner. It's not something I like saying, but I get these requests maybe once every 2-3 shifts, and I've only had someone walk out a handful of times.
i think that the only way to pull a longer shot without discolouration and bitterness is only via larger baskets and a stronger amount of pressure.
So, you would use a triple basket for a double shot? That makes sense. And more pressure in tamping? How much?
not pressure in tamping, actual machine pressure, i dont think they make machines with more pressure, but to create a longer shot i think thats the best way to do it. In my opinion i dont think the shot needs to be lengthend, and patrons who ask for longer shots dont fully understand the complexity and perfection of good espresso.

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