Why "dry" caps? - Barista Exchange2024-03-28T18:28:50Zhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/why-dry-caps?commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A1289668&x=1&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI'm with Benza on this one. …tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2011-09-22:1688216:Comment:12896682011-09-22T12:34:56.527Zzack burnetthttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/zackburnett
<p>I'm with Benza on this one. </p>
<p>It's generally the chain restaurants and not the quality driven places that let or even encourage the customer to have it their way. You have probably heard people say about a great restaurant in your town 'Damn that place is great, they have the absolute best (insert dish here).' You will not hear people say 'That place is my favorite because I can get extra pickles.' Pickles are great but no one will ever consider a restaurant great because they can…</p>
<p>I'm with Benza on this one. </p>
<p>It's generally the chain restaurants and not the quality driven places that let or even encourage the customer to have it their way. You have probably heard people say about a great restaurant in your town 'Damn that place is great, they have the absolute best (insert dish here).' You will not hear people say 'That place is my favorite because I can get extra pickles.' Pickles are great but no one will ever consider a restaurant great because they can get more of them. Go the the best restaurant in any city in the world and you will eat what the chef has determined is the best preparation of his chosen ingredients. Do some think this is snobby? Sure. But that's unfair. Anyone who appreciates quality and a unique experience should understand the chef's motives. </p>
<p>The chef is not a snob because he wants people to enjoy his creations as intended. The chef has spent countless hours and sleepless nights perfecting the dish. Has the average customer done this? No, and they shouldn't. It's the chef's job to create interesting and delicious meals and if the customer enjoys the restaurant they should trust that the chef will use his ingredients in a way they will enjoy. </p>
<p>This same approach applies to coffee. We generally use 2 and no more than, I'd say, four ingredients in a drink. If you are anything like me I'm sure you've spent tons of time and some sleepless nights trying to figure out the very best way to roast or prepare coffee. Therefore the way the barista chooses to prepare the drink is better than the way the average customer would. This is not snobby it's just that if you dedicate a good portion of your life to making the best coffee then as long as you use good ingredients you will make coffee better than most. </p>
<p>If the customer is a car salesman I'd expect them to be able to sell a car better than I could and probably wouldn't give them any tips on how to move a car off a lot. Why should a customer think they are better at the craft of properly preparing coffee than a great barista? It's nothing but rational to think that someone who practices a skill or craft daily, be it making coffee, selling a car or performing surgery, will be more skilled at that craft than someone who does not. </p>
<p>I say all of this knowing that this is a peer group and would never have this conversation with a customer. I think that is the key to the whole snob debate. Just do what you do to the best of your ability and don't give off the vibe that you are better at anything than your customers. Making awesome coffee is pretty cool but don't let that go to your head. After all to most people, even those who really enjoy it, it's just coffee. Really in the grand scheme of things it really is just a brown liquid that tastes good so who really gives a shit. :-) </p>
<p>By the way, I wouldn't advertise this to my customers, but I'd make anyone anything they want as long as I have the ingredients on hand. I'd somehow let them know that if they enjoy the drink that next time they should try it my way and they will really like it. Or you could always offer to make them the drink your way and if they don't like it replace it with their 'customized' drink free of charge. Good luck!</p> Ian C. said:I personally th…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2011-09-21:1688216:Comment:12898182011-09-21T23:06:58.153ZBenza Lancehttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/BenzaLance
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<cite>Ian C. said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/why-dry-caps?id=1688216%3ATopic%3A1122499&page=2#1688216Comment1236103"><div><p>I personally think you should offer it. You say you are a quality-driven shop, and when people expect quality they also expect to be able to customize their experience. Your idealism is admirable but honestly, I don't know if it can cut it commercially, and as a customer I would be deeply disappointed if my…</p>
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<cite>Ian C. said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/why-dry-caps?id=1688216%3ATopic%3A1122499&page=2#1688216Comment1236103"><div><p>I personally think you should offer it. You say you are a quality-driven shop, and when people expect quality they also expect to be able to customize their experience. Your idealism is admirable but honestly, I don't know if it can cut it commercially, and as a customer I would be deeply disappointed if my request for something easy was rejected just because the barista or shop didn't want to do it.</p>
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<p>PS: I wish you all the best but I don't know if there's really a market for a real coffeeshop in Peoria.</p>
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Personally, I disagree.<br />
As a consumer, if I know I'm going to a coffeehouse, restaurant, bar, whathaveyou, that is known for quality, I'll typically defer to whats commonly offered, or the baristas/chefs/bartenders whim. The whole 'customize your experience' aspect seems to stem from places that lack in quality, and want/need to make up for it in some way. I could be completely off base here, but I dont find anything negative with shops not doing something because they simply dont want to. As far as this being commercially viable, I'd point to any number of "3rd Wave" shops that rock this policy.<br />
As far as being able to do this in Peoria, I cant debate that, because I'm not familiar with the MidWest. I suppose in that respect, you should probably take my post with a grain of salt. If you're doing a honest, progressive work, people will dig it, regardless of locale.<br />
My .02 So far in the shops that I ha…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2011-08-14:1688216:Comment:12375292011-08-14T19:30:05.252ZErik Heftahttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/ErikHefta
<p>So far in the shops that I have worked at I have observed that many dry capp customers only get it dry so that when they add A LOT of sugar the foam will decrease and they are left with a few sips of essentially an 8oz latte. This is what I have observed but again, some could be searching for another flavor. </p>
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<p>I use to work in St. Charles, IL... about an hour North of Chicago and dry capps were ordered on a regular basis.</p>
<p>So far in the shops that I have worked at I have observed that many dry capp customers only get it dry so that when they add A LOT of sugar the foam will decrease and they are left with a few sips of essentially an 8oz latte. This is what I have observed but again, some could be searching for another flavor. </p>
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<p>I use to work in St. Charles, IL... about an hour North of Chicago and dry capps were ordered on a regular basis.</p> I personally think you should…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2011-08-14:1688216:Comment:12361032011-08-14T07:18:00.083ZIan C.https://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/IanCanovi
<p>I personally think you should offer it. You say you are a quality-driven shop, and when people expect quality they also expect to be able to customize their experience. Your idealism is admirable but honestly, I don't know if it can cut it commercially, and as a customer I would be deeply disappointed if my request for something easy was rejected just because the barista or shop didn't want to do it.</p>
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<p>PS: I wish you all the best but I don't know if there's really a market…</p>
<p>I personally think you should offer it. You say you are a quality-driven shop, and when people expect quality they also expect to be able to customize their experience. Your idealism is admirable but honestly, I don't know if it can cut it commercially, and as a customer I would be deeply disappointed if my request for something easy was rejected just because the barista or shop didn't want to do it.</p>
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<p>PS: I wish you all the best but I don't know if there's really a market for a real coffeeshop in Peoria.</p> Good thoughts, all.tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2011-05-10:1688216:Comment:11244292011-05-10T22:48:24.498ZBradyhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/Brady
Good thoughts, all.
Good thoughts, all. You'd be lucky to even get 5%…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2011-05-10:1688216:Comment:11237862011-05-10T16:56:47.478ZStevehttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/Stephen89
<p>You'd be lucky to even get 5%...we dont even offer it, talk about or present it UNLESS the customer absolutely wants it.....I'm not for it, but I'm also not in business to turn away customers. Serve it if asked.....but, just make capps the way its supposed to be done and I assure you most customers wont mind, considering they've been drinking crap all the way up until they visited you. I give you this advice as a business owner, who opened up across the street from the 3rd highest revenue…</p>
<p>You'd be lucky to even get 5%...we dont even offer it, talk about or present it UNLESS the customer absolutely wants it.....I'm not for it, but I'm also not in business to turn away customers. Serve it if asked.....but, just make capps the way its supposed to be done and I assure you most customers wont mind, considering they've been drinking crap all the way up until they visited you. I give you this advice as a business owner, who opened up across the street from the 3rd highest revenue producing starbucks in the US. We have converted many in just 6 months...and continue to teach and educated daily!! Best wishes......BTW you have one of the nicest golf courses I've ever played out there......</p>
<p> </p> I have a hard time telling pe…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2011-05-10:1688216:Comment:11241412011-05-10T14:11:52.748ZR. Justin Shepherdhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/RJustinShepherd
<p>I have a hard time telling people "no," when it's a matter of taste and not quality. Admittedly, your preference against a dry capp is a matter of taste — if the espresso is good and the milk is good, there's no reason a dry capp can't be "good," for what it is. </p>
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<p>But what I do (and encourage my baristas to do) is to steer people gently toward the drinks we prefer. For instance: When someone comes in and orders a "caramel macchiatto" (this happens pretty much daily), we…</p>
<p>I have a hard time telling people "no," when it's a matter of taste and not quality. Admittedly, your preference against a dry capp is a matter of taste — if the espresso is good and the milk is good, there's no reason a dry capp can't be "good," for what it is. </p>
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<p>But what I do (and encourage my baristas to do) is to steer people gently toward the drinks we prefer. For instance: When someone comes in and orders a "caramel macchiatto" (this happens pretty much daily), we explain that we offer a similar drink called a caramel mocha. We neglect to inform them that it's way less sweet and tastes like, well, caramel and not vanilla. By second or third visit, they are ordering it by the name we call it and they don't seem to notice or care that it's not the drink they were originally picturing — because ours is BETTER. Make great stuff and most people won't care if it's even exactly what they ordered. (Or in many cases, they don't know what they're ordering anyway: they want to SEEM like they know, so they use terminology they've heard before.) If you've ever had a Starbucks latte, you may see a good reason someone would use the term "dry capp" — most people who order cappuccinos here are steered toward lattes, and 95% end up ordering lattes from then on out. </p>
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<p>But for the 5% who really want a "dry capp," I see no reason not to make it if they insist. If it's a matter of taste, get over it; if it's a matter of costs (takes more milk and more time), then simply charge appropriately. </p> Speaking purely as a coffee c…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2011-05-10:1688216:Comment:11242152011-05-10T08:05:11.101ZDewi Hugheshttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/DewiHughes
<p>Speaking purely as a coffee consumer, I usually ask for a dry capp to ward off the bucket of milk that gets served up Starbucks, Costa Coffee or Cafe Nero here in the U.K. I like to taste the coffee in my capp, and asking for it dry [sometimes] ensures that I will.</p>
<p>Since the coffee scene in London is improving steadily, I have to do this less and less. I would suggest that you explain that you do not overdo the milk in your capps when you serve them, and encourage them to try it.</p>
<p>Speaking purely as a coffee consumer, I usually ask for a dry capp to ward off the bucket of milk that gets served up Starbucks, Costa Coffee or Cafe Nero here in the U.K. I like to taste the coffee in my capp, and asking for it dry [sometimes] ensures that I will.</p>
<p>Since the coffee scene in London is improving steadily, I have to do this less and less. I would suggest that you explain that you do not overdo the milk in your capps when you serve them, and encourage them to try it.</p> Thanks for the responses. We…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2011-05-09:1688216:Comment:11236652011-05-09T23:25:34.398ZTy Paluskahttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/TyPaluska
<p>Thanks for the responses. We don't in anyway want to come across snobby or rude. The fact of the matter is there are plenty of places around that will whip them up a dry cap. We want to offer something different. Is it ok to refuse? Or do we just not say anything and make it the way we always make it and maybe they won't say anything? It's a difficult battle. Hopefully the uniqueness will set us apart enough where people won't ask too many questions they'll just try out what we are…</p>
<p>Thanks for the responses. We don't in anyway want to come across snobby or rude. The fact of the matter is there are plenty of places around that will whip them up a dry cap. We want to offer something different. Is it ok to refuse? Or do we just not say anything and make it the way we always make it and maybe they won't say anything? It's a difficult battle. Hopefully the uniqueness will set us apart enough where people won't ask too many questions they'll just try out what we are offering....but I know it won't be that easy. We are trying to be prepared and trying to figure out how to educate and offer drinks we feel are the best without compromising our integrity. I have a feeling it's going to be a difficult journey but we really don't know until we get going I suppose.</p>
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<p> </p> To answer the other half of t…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2011-05-09:1688216:Comment:11232572011-05-09T17:43:03.591ZBradyhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/Brady
<p>To answer the other half of the question... I seem to recall reading that dry capps are the preferred preparation in Germany (or was it Switzerland?). I am not German, so cannot verify... but I believe that came from one of the old Barry vs Chris debates on the subject (I think it was the famous "pizza" thread...). Chris, are you around and/or do you recall? Anyone from Germany or Switzerland speak to this?</p>
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<p>How's that for a dubious source of info?</p>
<p>To answer the other half of the question... I seem to recall reading that dry capps are the preferred preparation in Germany (or was it Switzerland?). I am not German, so cannot verify... but I believe that came from one of the old Barry vs Chris debates on the subject (I think it was the famous "pizza" thread...). Chris, are you around and/or do you recall? Anyone from Germany or Switzerland speak to this?</p>
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<p>How's that for a dubious source of info?</p>