Thoughts on Grinders and Machines for waste..training..wonderful Espresso - Barista Exchange2024-03-28T23:15:44Zhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/thoughts-on-grinders-and-machines-for-waste-training-wonderful?commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A1306640&feed=yes&xn_auth=noSeems to me that making sure…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2011-10-25:1688216:Comment:13069222011-10-25T18:37:13.412ZBradyhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/Brady
<p>Seems to me that making sure your staff is properly trained is one of the most important things you can do to "develop your business". Training your staff well is the single best way to improve quality and consistency and reduce waste.</p>
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<p>Don't worry about time requirement... unless your turnover is really high you shouldn't have to spend all of your time training. If you are really worried about this, consider designating a lead barista or manager as the trainer, or bring in an…</p>
<p>Seems to me that making sure your staff is properly trained is one of the most important things you can do to "develop your business". Training your staff well is the single best way to improve quality and consistency and reduce waste.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Don't worry about time requirement... unless your turnover is really high you shouldn't have to spend all of your time training. If you are really worried about this, consider designating a lead barista or manager as the trainer, or bring in an outside trainer.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The best use I see for automation in coffee equipment is a timed espresso grinder (like the Compak Fresh or Mazzer E grinders). These can absolutely improve consistency and reduce waste, though still require training to use properly.</p>
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<p>As far as equipment choices, go with machines that are solid performers at your target volume. Buy grinders that have plenty of speed so that you don't have to run them constantly in order to keep up. Buy a little more espresso machine than you think you need... they are less stable when running way below or way above design capacity. Pick models that feature good temperature stability - these will improve the overall quality and consistency of your espresso and generate less waste from bad shots. Yes this means you will spend more on equipment, but if quality and consistency are your goal there's really no way around it.</p>
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<p><cite>J F. Kelly said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/thoughts-on-grinders-and-machines-for-waste-training-wonderful?page=1&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A1306514&x=1#1688216Comment1306464"><div><div class="xg_user_generated">Thanks for all the wonderful advice ...so it really seems that the idea I need to develop is more about staff retention and training. I come from a food service background and understand developing people but my average stay at the restaurant was over two years and It seems through my present experience this maybe considerably shorter. My concern is spending vast amounts of time as a trainer and not an owner developing my business. The one thing I will say is that a superauto is off the list</div>
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</blockquote> By all means. Just use it wit…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2011-10-25:1688216:Comment:13065142011-10-25T17:27:50.844ZJason Haegerhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/JasonHaeger
By all means. Just use it with care. :)<br></br>
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<cite>David Myers said:</cite><br />
<blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/thoughts-on-grinders-and-machines-for-waste-training-wonderful?commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A1306464&xg_source=msg_com_forum#1688216Comment1306839"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Well put. Can I quote you on that in the future?</p>
<p><br></br> <cite>Jason Haeger said:…</cite></p>
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By all means. Just use it with care. :)<br/>
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<cite>David Myers said:</cite><br />
<blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/thoughts-on-grinders-and-machines-for-waste-training-wonderful?commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A1306464&xg_source=msg_com_forum#1688216Comment1306839"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Well put. Can I quote you on that in the future?</p>
<p><br/> <cite>Jason Haeger said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/thoughts-on-grinders-and-machines-for-waste-training-wonderful#1688216Comment1306640"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>There's just no overcoming apathy or ignorance by mechanical supplementation.</p>
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</blockquote> Well put. Can I quote you on…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2011-10-25:1688216:Comment:13068392011-10-25T00:47:00.967ZDavid Myershttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/DavidMyers
<p>Well put. Can I quote you on that in the future?</p>
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<cite>Jason Haeger said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/thoughts-on-grinders-and-machines-for-waste-training-wonderful#1688216Comment1306640"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>There's just no overcoming apathy or ignorance by mechanical supplementation.</p>
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<p>Well put. Can I quote you on that in the future?</p>
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<cite>Jason Haeger said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/thoughts-on-grinders-and-machines-for-waste-training-wonderful#1688216Comment1306640"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>There's just no overcoming apathy or ignorance by mechanical supplementation.</p>
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</blockquote> Thanks for all the wonderful…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2011-10-25:1688216:Comment:13064642011-10-25T00:42:11.169ZJ F. Kellyhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/JFKelly
Thanks for all the wonderful advice ...so it really seems that the idea I need to develop is more about staff retention and training. I come from a food service background and understand developing people but my average stay at the restaurant was over two years and It seems through my present experience this maybe considerably shorter. My concern is spending vast amounts of time as a trainer and not an owner developing my business. The one thing I will say is that a superauto is off the list
Thanks for all the wonderful advice ...so it really seems that the idea I need to develop is more about staff retention and training. I come from a food service background and understand developing people but my average stay at the restaurant was over two years and It seems through my present experience this maybe considerably shorter. My concern is spending vast amounts of time as a trainer and not an owner developing my business. The one thing I will say is that a superauto is off the list Ditto on this... if people st…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2011-10-24:1688216:Comment:13065372011-10-24T21:31:30.382ZPhil Robertshttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/PhilRoberts
Ditto on this... if people still say ditto, that is...<br></br>
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<cite>Bryan Wray said:</cite><br />
<blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/thoughts-on-grinders-and-machines-for-waste-training-wonderful?commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A1306640&xg_source=msg_com_forum#1688216Comment1306105"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>It's going to be much harder to train your entire staff how to stay on top of maintenance, cleaning and re-calibration of a super automatic machine…</p>
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Ditto on this... if people still say ditto, that is...<br/>
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<cite>Bryan Wray said:</cite><br />
<blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/thoughts-on-grinders-and-machines-for-waste-training-wonderful?commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A1306640&xg_source=msg_com_forum#1688216Comment1306105"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>It's going to be much harder to train your entire staff how to stay on top of maintenance, cleaning and re-calibration of a super automatic machine than it's going to be to train a trainer. Invest heavily in someone who will be with you for the long haul. </p>
<p>Whether the investment is your time and talents or your money to send the trainer to somewhere like the ABC (or bring someone in) will be up to you. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>This is always a better route than dumbing it down for everyone with a super auto.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>As far as "What machine is best?" there is no answer... it depends on your situation. For reliable machines simply do a search on this site. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>-bry</p>
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</blockquote> The short answer is that ther…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2011-10-24:1688216:Comment:13066402011-10-24T20:30:23.493ZJason Haegerhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/JasonHaeger
<p>The short answer is that there is no logical rationalization for buying fully automatic machines unless quality is an afterthought. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Truly consistent quality comes from baristas, not machinery. It is infinitely more valuable to invest heavily into the skill set of your staff than to invest heavily into the equipment. I would go so far as to suggest buying a used machine, used grinders, and used other equipment if that's what is necessary to allow for adequate training…</p>
<p>The short answer is that there is no logical rationalization for buying fully automatic machines unless quality is an afterthought. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Truly consistent quality comes from baristas, not machinery. It is infinitely more valuable to invest heavily into the skill set of your staff than to invest heavily into the equipment. I would go so far as to suggest buying a used machine, used grinders, and used other equipment if that's what is necessary to allow for adequate training budget. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>This is coming from an ex-barista, a still-practicing independent trainer and consultant, and a coffee roaster. There's just no overcoming apathy or ignorance by mechanical supplementation.</p> It's going to be much harder…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2011-10-24:1688216:Comment:13061052011-10-24T15:44:46.111ZBryan Wrayhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/BryanWray
<p>It's going to be much harder to train your entire staff how to stay on top of maintenance, cleaning and re-calibration of a super automatic machine than it's going to be to train a trainer. Invest heavily in someone who will be with you for the long haul. </p>
<p>Whether the investment is your time and talents or your money to send the trainer to somewhere like the ABC (or bring someone in) will be up to you. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>This is always a better route than dumbing it down for everyone…</p>
<p>It's going to be much harder to train your entire staff how to stay on top of maintenance, cleaning and re-calibration of a super automatic machine than it's going to be to train a trainer. Invest heavily in someone who will be with you for the long haul. </p>
<p>Whether the investment is your time and talents or your money to send the trainer to somewhere like the ABC (or bring someone in) will be up to you. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>This is always a better route than dumbing it down for everyone with a super auto.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>As far as "What machine is best?" there is no answer... it depends on your situation. For reliable machines simply do a search on this site. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>-bry</p> Thanks Phil
Sleepy eyes...bu…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2011-10-24:1688216:Comment:13062852011-10-24T14:34:10.703ZJ F. Kellyhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/JFKelly
<p>Thanks Phil </p>
<p>Sleepy eyes...but it's no excuse. What I really want is a quality product first followed by training them waste </p>
<p>Thanks Phil </p>
<p>Sleepy eyes...but it's no excuse. What I really want is a quality product first followed by training them waste </p> J F,
I think the premise o…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2011-10-24:1688216:Comment:13062052011-10-24T14:26:50.682ZPhil Robertshttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/PhilRoberts
<p>J F, </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I think the premise of your question is wrong, and may answer itself. They rationalize buying fully automatic machines to control waste and training, not to deliver top quality product!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>also, change your "expresso" to espresso or you may get run out of town;)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Phil</p>
<p>J F, </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I think the premise of your question is wrong, and may answer itself. They rationalize buying fully automatic machines to control waste and training, not to deliver top quality product!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>also, change your "expresso" to espresso or you may get run out of town;)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Phil</p>