the tamp - Barista Exchange2024-03-29T07:49:24Zhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/the-tamp?commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A496039&x=1&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI would love to see a Vimeo v…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2011-11-08:1688216:Comment:13128502011-11-08T15:33:13.558ZMatthewhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/Matthew323
I would love to see a Vimeo video on the actual experiment.
I would love to see a Vimeo video on the actual experiment. I have found that a uneven or…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2011-11-08:1688216:Comment:13128182011-11-08T10:56:28.989ZJames Perinihttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/JamesPerini
I have found that a uneven or non-level tamp makes much more of a difference to shot timing than the the weight of the tamp. Perhaps when you try to tamp as hard as you can you don't have as much control and as a result your tamp is uneven. Possibly causing channeling. Not sure though, not an expert by any means.
I have found that a uneven or non-level tamp makes much more of a difference to shot timing than the the weight of the tamp. Perhaps when you try to tamp as hard as you can you don't have as much control and as a result your tamp is uneven. Possibly causing channeling. Not sure though, not an expert by any means. Jared Rutledge said:as a side…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-06-05:1688216:Comment:5001672009-06-05T02:18:27.930ZBradyhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/Brady
<cite>Jared Rutledge said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/the-tamp?x=1&id=1688216%3ATopic%3A495200&page=3#1688216Comment499827"><div>as a side note, i would imagine most people are tapping the portafilter during dosing to ensure the espresso settles? i usually do it on the top of the dosing chamber itself but i saw Gwilym Davies do it on the dosing fork at the WBC this year. that's one major factor i learned in sydney that helped my espresso go from…</div>
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<cite>Jared Rutledge said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/the-tamp?x=1&id=1688216%3ATopic%3A495200&page=3#1688216Comment499827"><div>as a side note, i would imagine most people are tapping the portafilter during dosing to ensure the espresso settles? i usually do it on the top of the dosing chamber itself but i saw Gwilym Davies do it on the dosing fork at the WBC this year. that's one major factor i learned in sydney that helped my espresso go from shaky to good.</div>
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The benefit of settling in the forks (if you still got 'em) is that you're limited to how far you can move the PF, so your "thump" is more consistent. Picked up that tip from a very similar discussion here about a year ago... worms coming out of the can n…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-06-04:1688216:Comment:4998972009-06-04T20:36:20.904ZJesse -D->https://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/JesseDarrow
worms coming out of the can now.<br />
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<cite>Jared Rutledge said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/the-tamp?page=3&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A499827&x=1#1688216Comment499827"><div>i think the general idea behind a standard tamping pressure is to ensure that all your baristi are regulating their doses. in other words, if you keep your espresso bean consistent, and know your 18g dose sits right at the ridge line on a portafilter basket with your standard…</div>
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worms coming out of the can now.<br />
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<cite>Jared Rutledge said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/the-tamp?page=3&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A499827&x=1#1688216Comment499827"><div>i think the general idea behind a standard tamping pressure is to ensure that all your baristi are regulating their doses. in other words, if you keep your espresso bean consistent, and know your 18g dose sits right at the ridge line on a portafilter basket with your standard 30lb tamp, then you will likely pull more consistent shots.<br/> <br/>
of course (as has been determined) tamp pressure between 10lb-80lb isn't a huge determiner of the espresso's taste. i've just always viewed it as a tool to keep everything consistent.<br/>
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as a side note, i would imagine most people are tapping the portafilter during dosing to ensure the espresso settles? i usually do it on the top of the dosing chamber itself but i saw Gwilym Davies do it on the dosing fork at the WBC this year. that's one major factor i learned in sydney that helped my espresso go from shaky to good.</div>
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Tamp could be directly related to how quickly the grinds absorb H20. A puck that isn't tamped will likely let the initial burst of water (pre-infusion or not) reach the dry grounds on the bottom of your puck more quickly than if you had tamped 100lbs. But because the grinds are absorbing the coffee, you don't see a shot start any earlier. I don't know, just a theory. i think the general idea behi…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-06-04:1688216:Comment:4998272009-06-04T20:10:41.516ZJared Rutledgehttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/JaredRutledge
i think the general idea behind a standard tamping pressure is to ensure that all your baristi are regulating their doses. in other words, if you keep your espresso bean consistent, and know your 18g dose sits right at the ridge line on a portafilter basket with your standard 30lb tamp, then you will likely pull more consistent shots.<br />
<br />
of course (as has been determined) tamp pressure between 10lb-80lb isn't a huge determiner of the espresso's taste. i've just always viewed it as a tool to keep…
i think the general idea behind a standard tamping pressure is to ensure that all your baristi are regulating their doses. in other words, if you keep your espresso bean consistent, and know your 18g dose sits right at the ridge line on a portafilter basket with your standard 30lb tamp, then you will likely pull more consistent shots.<br />
<br />
of course (as has been determined) tamp pressure between 10lb-80lb isn't a huge determiner of the espresso's taste. i've just always viewed it as a tool to keep everything consistent.<br />
<br />
as a side note, i would imagine most people are tapping the portafilter during dosing to ensure the espresso settles? i usually do it on the top of the dosing chamber itself but i saw Gwilym Davies do it on the dosing fork at the WBC this year. that's one major factor i learned in sydney that helped my espresso go from shaky to good. Using an FB-80 with pre-infus…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-06-03:1688216:Comment:4985052009-06-03T20:33:11.526ZIan Shaughnessyhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/IanShaughnessy
Using an FB-80 with pre-infusion, Mazzer Rober with a dose timer, 21 grams, 24-26 second extractions, six way deconstruction with total extraction volume around 1 oz. Coffee was our Big Truck blend.<br />
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There wasn't really a difference from 5lbs to 80lbs. I mean, the aforementioned math is 496 lbs hitting a 58mm, and since the pre-infusion probably eliminates the differences in initial head space there's not any physical reason why there would be a difference.<br />
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<cite>Brady said:…</cite>
Using an FB-80 with pre-infusion, Mazzer Rober with a dose timer, 21 grams, 24-26 second extractions, six way deconstruction with total extraction volume around 1 oz. Coffee was our Big Truck blend.<br />
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There wasn't really a difference from 5lbs to 80lbs. I mean, the aforementioned math is 496 lbs hitting a 58mm, and since the pre-infusion probably eliminates the differences in initial head space there's not any physical reason why there would be a difference.<br />
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<cite>Brady said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/the-tamp?page=3&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A497938&x=1#1688216Comment497786"><div><cite>Ian Shaughnessy said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/the-tamp?page=3&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A497631&x=1#1688216Comment497311"><div>Yeah, as all are saying, it don't matter a bit. Elvin, Mike Cannon, and I just went and tested this... we pulled (multiple) control shots (10 - 30 lbs), and then a few shots without tamping at all, and then a few shots with 80+ lbs tamp pressure. We did these all as deconstructed shots and found that there was no difference. Channeling is more likely to occur in a zero pressure tamp, but 10lbs is more than enough to force out air bubbles that may be in an untamped puck. Otherwise, no difference, whatsoever.<br/><br/></div>
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<br/>Thanks for posting and for looking at this.<br/><br/>No difference at all? Gotta say I'm surprised. Sometimes rules are total bullshit, but many times they have a little basis in something factual.<br/><br/>Let me ask... no difference in time to extract the target volume? No difference in flavor? Also what machine were you using... was there pre-infusion involved?<br/><br/>I'm not challenging your conclusion... just looking for some detail. Again, frustrated by being 5 hours from my machine and unable to experiment in person.</div>
</blockquote> I tend to find a difference o…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-06-03:1688216:Comment:4979382009-06-03T05:33:16.606ZJason Haegerhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/JasonHaeger
I tend to find a difference of flavor, but I think that's due more to compression and head space than actual tamp pressure.<br />
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It's the extraction time thing that I think doesn't really change. But there is more to extraction than time, and therein lies the difference(s). My $.02.<br />
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<cite>Brady said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/the-tamp?page=3&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A497786&x=1#1688216Comment497786"><div><cite>Ian Shaughnessy…</cite></div>
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I tend to find a difference of flavor, but I think that's due more to compression and head space than actual tamp pressure.<br />
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It's the extraction time thing that I think doesn't really change. But there is more to extraction than time, and therein lies the difference(s). My $.02.<br />
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<cite>Brady said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/the-tamp?page=3&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A497786&x=1#1688216Comment497786"><div><cite>Ian Shaughnessy said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/the-tamp?page=3&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A497631&x=1#1688216Comment497311"><div>Yeah, as all are saying, it don't matter a bit. Elvin, Mike Cannon, and I just went and tested this... we pulled (multiple) control shots (10 - 30 lbs), and then a few shots without tamping at all, and then a few shots with 80+ lbs tamp pressure. We did these all as deconstructed shots and found that there was no difference. Channeling is more likely to occur in a zero pressure tamp, but 10lbs is more than enough to force out air bubbles that may be in an untamped puck. Otherwise, no difference, whatsoever.<br/> <br/></div>
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Thanks for posting and for looking at this.<br/>
<br/>
No difference at all? Gotta say I'm surprised. Sometimes rules are total bullshit, but many times they have a little basis in something factual.<br/>
<br/>
Let me ask... no difference in time to extract the target volume? No difference in flavor? Also what machine were you using... was there pre-infusion involved?<br/>
<br/>
I'm not challenging your conclusion... just looking for some detail. Again, frustrated by being 5 hours from my machine and unable to experiment in person.</div>
</blockquote> Jason Haeger said:Re: 5lbs.…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-06-03:1688216:Comment:4977902009-06-03T02:05:05.897ZBradyhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/Brady
<cite>Jason Haeger said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/the-tamp?page=3&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A497631&x=1#1688216Comment497351"><div>Re: 5lbs.<br/> <br/>
That's now. He was talking about "then". They did, in fact, USED to tamp at around 90lbs. Now days, it's barely at all.<br/></div>
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Aren't they the ones that put those stupid plastic noses on the front of their dosers for us to tamp with?
<cite>Jason Haeger said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/the-tamp?page=3&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A497631&x=1#1688216Comment497351"><div>Re: 5lbs.<br/> <br/>
That's now. He was talking about "then". They did, in fact, USED to tamp at around 90lbs. Now days, it's barely at all.<br/></div>
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Aren't they the ones that put those stupid plastic noses on the front of their dosers for us to tamp with? Ian Shaughnessy said:Yeah, as…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-06-03:1688216:Comment:4977862009-06-03T02:03:19.297ZBradyhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/Brady
<cite>Ian Shaughnessy said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/the-tamp?page=3&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A497631&x=1#1688216Comment497311"><div>Yeah, as all are saying, it don't matter a bit. Elvin, Mike Cannon, and I just went and tested this... we pulled (multiple) control shots (10 - 30 lbs), and then a few shots without tamping at all, and then a few shots with 80+ lbs tamp pressure. We did these all as deconstructed shots and found that there was…</div>
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<cite>Ian Shaughnessy said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/the-tamp?page=3&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A497631&x=1#1688216Comment497311"><div>Yeah, as all are saying, it don't matter a bit. Elvin, Mike Cannon, and I just went and tested this... we pulled (multiple) control shots (10 - 30 lbs), and then a few shots without tamping at all, and then a few shots with 80+ lbs tamp pressure. We did these all as deconstructed shots and found that there was no difference. Channeling is more likely to occur in a zero pressure tamp, but 10lbs is more than enough to force out air bubbles that may be in an untamped puck. Otherwise, no difference, whatsoever.<br/> <br/>
</div>
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Thanks for posting and for looking at this.<br />
<br />
No difference at all? Gotta say I'm surprised. Sometimes rules are total bullshit, but many times they have a little basis in something factual.<br />
<br />
Let me ask... no difference in time to extract the target volume? No difference in flavor? Also what machine were you using... was there pre-infusion involved?<br />
<br />
I'm not challenging your conclusion... just looking for some detail. Again, frustrated by being 5 hours from my machine and unable to experiment in person. Zak, I'd love to see you guys…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-06-02:1688216:Comment:4976312009-06-02T22:55:12.636ZLuis Zamanhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/LuisZaman
Zak, I'd love to see you guys go for 90lb tamps. I think you could easily make a few more bucks in tips if you started jumping around while tamping. I missed ya on Monday dude :(.
Zak, I'd love to see you guys go for 90lb tamps. I think you could easily make a few more bucks in tips if you started jumping around while tamping. I missed ya on Monday dude :(.