Syrup in the cup or in the pitcher - Barista Exchange2024-03-28T22:02:44Zhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/syrup-in-the-cup-or-in-the?commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A578074&x=1&feed=yes&xn_auth=noHmm...well, the story of milk…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-10-12:1688216:Comment:6530312009-10-12T06:10:40.934ZFraser Jamiesonhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/FraserJamieson
Hmm...well, the story of milk in the boiler is much more than an urban legand. This I learned from direct contact with a skilled technician who I know, and from a store owner who I know.<br />
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Again, poor barista skills were to blame:<br />
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The way the staff were tought by the the store owner, was to steam two pitchers of milk at the same time; one for hot milk, and one for "foam". Gag me with a spoon. The thought of this makes me want to hurl. Anyway, as per usual, they always had two pitchers sitting…
Hmm...well, the story of milk in the boiler is much more than an urban legand. This I learned from direct contact with a skilled technician who I know, and from a store owner who I know.<br />
<br />
Again, poor barista skills were to blame:<br />
<br />
The way the staff were tought by the the store owner, was to steam two pitchers of milk at the same time; one for hot milk, and one for "foam". Gag me with a spoon. The thought of this makes me want to hurl. Anyway, as per usual, they always had two pitchers sitting on the deck of the machine, with steam wands in each of them. They never hand held the pitchers, except when removing them to pour.<br />
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Well, if you've ever had air bubbles in your water tap at home, you know that less than 0 pressure happens the odd time, if only for a split second. Watch the hydraulic hoses on garbage trucks as the packer runs. They kick when the valves change position. Well, if you slam water valves open and closed, it's possible to induce air into lines. The same can happen with espresso machines: milk can be sucked up into the boiler if steaming two pitchers at the same time.<br />
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Yes, the vacuum breaker is supposed to prevent this. The world isn't perfect. some raspberry syrups dont do…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-10-11:1688216:Comment:6526532009-10-11T22:37:10.925Zalyssahttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/alyssaisasupervillain
some raspberry syrups dont do well with cold milk. so it could have had a weird reaction and caused that gross flavor. i once was stuck with a raspberry that curdled when it touched cold milk. grossest shit ever. but i think most syrup makers have fixed that problem.<br />
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<cite>Bam Bam said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/syrup-in-the-cup-or-in-the?x=1&id=1688216%3ATopic%3A434512&page=3#1688216Comment578833"><div>I've actually tried steaming milk &…</div>
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some raspberry syrups dont do well with cold milk. so it could have had a weird reaction and caused that gross flavor. i once was stuck with a raspberry that curdled when it touched cold milk. grossest shit ever. but i think most syrup makers have fixed that problem.<br />
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<cite>Bam Bam said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/syrup-in-the-cup-or-in-the?x=1&id=1688216%3ATopic%3A434512&page=3#1688216Comment578833"><div>I've actually tried steaming milk & syrup together - I steamed milk with raspberry syrup so I could produce a pink rosetta. This looked pretty cool, but I can't tell you if there was a flavor difference - I took a sip of my drink, found it gross, and never thought to prepare another raspberry latte, syrup-in-cup-style, to compare.<br/> <br/>
What I will say is that I purged and cleaned the steam wand thoroughly after completing my experiment. It's easy to gunk up the wand when you steam weird things. Also, foreign flavors tend to linger in the wand. Ever make an eggnog latte? Unless you purge and clean the wand SUPER-well afterward, the next 3 lattes you make will taste like eggnog. (Bleh!)<br/>
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For these reasons (gunking up the wand, unintentionally altering flavor of the next drinks you make) I'd probably stay clear of steaming flavoring & milk together.</div>
</blockquote> youre my hero for posting tha…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-10-11:1688216:Comment:6526352009-10-11T22:28:46.067Zalyssahttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/alyssaisasupervillain
youre my hero for posting that.<br />
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<cite>Phil Proteau said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/syrup-in-the-cup-or-in-the#1688216Comment437921"><div>So just to clear up the urban legend of the Barista who sucked milk into the boiler, which then had to be entirely replaced at great expense, let's cover exactly what needs to happen to set up the perfect storm.<br></br> <br></br> 1-The pressure does need to fall way "below its ideal level". In fact, it needs to fall…</div>
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youre my hero for posting that.<br />
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<cite>Phil Proteau said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/syrup-in-the-cup-or-in-the#1688216Comment437921"><div>So just to clear up the urban legend of the Barista who sucked milk into the boiler, which then had to be entirely replaced at great expense, let's cover exactly what needs to happen to set up the perfect storm.<br/> <br/>
1-The pressure does need to fall way "below its ideal level". In fact, it needs to fall <b>below the 0 on the pressure gage</b>. This happens one of two way: a) the machine has been turned off, or b) the heating element is no longer functioning.<br/>
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2-The vacuum breaker valve has to <b>stick shut</b>. The purpose of this device is to allow air back into the boiler in the event that one of the two conditions above have been met.<br/>
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3-The <b>steaming valve has to be open</b> at the moment, or soon after, the pressure falls below 0. A continued suction inside the boiler could still pull the vacuum breaker open at any moment.<br/>
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4-The wand <b>must be submerged</b> in a pitcher of milk at this critical time.<br/>
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It is true that all the planets can align and this can happen. It is true that this has happened. It is true that the boiler then needs to be replaced. However, this is not ever something that happens under normal operating conditions, at not caused completely by slack technique. How would these things ever happen at same time, you may ask yourself?<br/>
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1-A very old espresso machine, which has never been turned off, and which has been using hard water for many years, has a vacuum breaker that use to hiss a little bit years ago. Calcium and lime deposits, which had been slowly escaping from the breaker, built up a chunk of scale which now prevents the breaker mechanism from opening.<br/>
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2-Old age has also caused an electrical malfunction, and at 3:27 in the afternoon the heating element stopped receiving eclectic current, so the boiler is cooling off. It is not a busy time of day, so no one has noticed anything unusual. The steam has cooled off so much now that steam in the boiler has contracted to the point that it is no longer pushing out, but sucking in. A vacuum has been created inside the boiler.<br/>
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3-Someone orders a Latte, and the Barista gets the milk pitcher ready to steam, submerging the tip below the surface of the milk. This is where poor technique has come into play. The Barista should have purged condensed water out of the wand before steaming, and would have noticed that no steam came out. But instead, the moment the steam valve was opened, the barrier between the inside of the boiler (now with negative pressure) and the outside world has suddenly been broken. A rather large amount of milk from the pitcher is drawn very rapidly up the wand, through the valve, and ultimately, into the boiler. It will curdle. It will curdle badly. Even once you fix the electrical and get the thing working again, you can never get rid of the stench of foul milk out of the boiler.<br/>
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So yes, it can happen. The moral of the story is- Always purge before steaming. No exceptions.<br/>
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Small amounts of milk will always get in the wand, even with good technique. Milk by itself is easy enough to clean out with regular maintenance. Chocolate milk, or syrup, will coat with inside of the wand with a thicker layer of sticky crud than just plain milk. So I maintain that syrup in the cup is always the best technique for mixing flavors into the drink.<br/>
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And that my friends, is the end of Barista Bedtime Stories for tonight.</div>
</blockquote> Ok so what would the the wand…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-08-08:1688216:Comment:5787332009-08-08T09:05:40.043Zilludereluderehttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/illudereludere
Ok so what would the the wand damage be like if I were using chocolate milk? And chocolate is made by adding water and sugar to the pure chocolate powder.
Ok so what would the the wand damage be like if I were using chocolate milk? And chocolate is made by adding water and sugar to the pure chocolate powder. Stevie Anna said:The coffee s…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-08-08:1688216:Comment:5785792009-08-08T00:59:34.253ZBradyhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/Brady
<cite>Stevie Anna said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/syrup-in-the-cup-or-in-the?page=2&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A578074&x=1#1688216Comment577495"><div>The coffee shop I work at uses powdered mocha(not my choice obviously as I only work there). Would you steam it with the milk or put some in the bottom of the cup and use the espresso to warm and mix it before putting the milk over it?</div>
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We do a housemade powdered cocoa mix as…
<cite>Stevie Anna said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/syrup-in-the-cup-or-in-the?page=2&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A578074&x=1#1688216Comment577495"><div>The coffee shop I work at uses powdered mocha(not my choice obviously as I only work there). Would you steam it with the milk or put some in the bottom of the cup and use the espresso to warm and mix it before putting the milk over it?</div>
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We do a housemade powdered cocoa mix as well (my choice... cause it is great) and have good luck with putting the powder in the pitcher, hitting it with an ounce or two of water from the boiler's tap, and giving it a quick swirl before adding the milk. This step kinda blooms it a bit and helps dissolve and prevent chunks. Steaming it with the milk further dissolves and mixes it, smoothing things out. Whatever Johnny I've seen you…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-08-07:1688216:Comment:5780742009-08-07T15:08:33.991ZJohn Berknesshttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/JohnnyBicycler
Whatever Johnny I've seen you do it! wait, are we talking about steam wands or is this a metaphor?<br />
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<cite>Johnny Bicycler said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/syrup-in-the-cup-or-in-the#1688216Comment436162"><div>i would never never let my steam wand touch chocolate. eeeeekkk</div>
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Whatever Johnny I've seen you do it! wait, are we talking about steam wands or is this a metaphor?<br />
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<cite>Johnny Bicycler said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/syrup-in-the-cup-or-in-the#1688216Comment436162"><div>i would never never let my steam wand touch chocolate. eeeeekkk</div>
</blockquote> We teach flavor in the pitche…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-08-07:1688216:Comment:5775062009-08-07T00:27:47.214ZThe Coffee Institutehttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/TheCoffeeInstitute
We teach flavor in the pitcher.<br />
As Phil has said...there is no danger to your equipment and it distributes the flavor more thoroughly.<br />
Becki also is right your portions need to be near exact so as not to be off in the flavor.<br />
If you use cocoa powder mix...it is best used in the pitcher. If you Have a sauce then it can really only be used in the cup and stirred.<br />
The way I see it...steaming in the pitcher not only distributes the flavor better...but it also a. saves you from having to dirty a…
We teach flavor in the pitcher.<br />
As Phil has said...there is no danger to your equipment and it distributes the flavor more thoroughly.<br />
Becki also is right your portions need to be near exact so as not to be off in the flavor.<br />
If you use cocoa powder mix...it is best used in the pitcher. If you Have a sauce then it can really only be used in the cup and stirred.<br />
The way I see it...steaming in the pitcher not only distributes the flavor better...but it also a. saves you from having to dirty a spoon. B. Is quicker because you do not have to stir. C. Preserves the integrity of the espresso in the cup (even though they are adding syrups to the drink the espresso still deserves some respect)<br />
The great art about this industry is that we all may be proven wrong a few years from now. At the moment and in my opinion this is what works best for flavors.<br />
-Chris Deferio The coffee shop I work at use…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-08-07:1688216:Comment:5774952009-08-07T00:16:50.080ZStevie Annahttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/StevieAnna
The coffee shop I work at uses powdered mocha(not my choice obviously as I only work there). Would you steam it with the milk or put some in the bottom of the cup and use the espresso to warm and mix it before putting the milk over it?
The coffee shop I work at uses powdered mocha(not my choice obviously as I only work there). Would you steam it with the milk or put some in the bottom of the cup and use the espresso to warm and mix it before putting the milk over it? i steam syrups in my milk, i…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-06-15:1688216:Comment:5179722009-06-15T17:07:20.707Zlindsaytronhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/lindsaytron
i steam syrups in my milk, i like how the flavor carries through the milk, and sometimes the color of the milk looks awesome. then i can pour latte art and it looks neat, and i worry less if the flavor of the syrup is carried through the milk evenly. i don't steam sauces with the milk cuz then it really does make a mess of the steam wand. i'm pretty ridiculously meticulous about the steam wand, but lots of baristas may not be, so i think really either way is fine- just as long as care for the…
i steam syrups in my milk, i like how the flavor carries through the milk, and sometimes the color of the milk looks awesome. then i can pour latte art and it looks neat, and i worry less if the flavor of the syrup is carried through the milk evenly. i don't steam sauces with the milk cuz then it really does make a mess of the steam wand. i'm pretty ridiculously meticulous about the steam wand, but lots of baristas may not be, so i think really either way is fine- just as long as care for the machine is a top priority. Always put the syrup or sauce…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-06-15:1688216:Comment:5179332009-06-15T16:12:49.612ZJason Dominyhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/jdominy
Always put the syrup or sauce in the cup, and not the pitcher. There's not a huge flavor difference, but it's not good to steam milk with all that gunk in it.
Always put the syrup or sauce in the cup, and not the pitcher. There's not a huge flavor difference, but it's not good to steam milk with all that gunk in it.