Slow decaf pour overs - Barista Exchange2024-03-29T05:38:49Zhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/slow-decaf-pour-overs?x=1&id=1688216%3ATopic%3A1338211&feed=yes&xn_auth=noAs for decaf pour-over, I agr…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2012-03-30:1688216:Comment:13695332012-03-30T22:39:00.982ZEric Schaeferhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/EricSchaefer
<p>As for decaf pour-over, I agree with others' advice to just adjust the grind and trust your taste buds. You've got great tastes and I'm sure you won't go wrong. Another alternative would be to use a different type of pour-over. I haven't looked super-close at them recently, but I know different models have different size holes which influence the flow rate and extraction time. Would a pour-over with larger holes make the difference? Not something I've tried myself yet, but might be worth…</p>
<p>As for decaf pour-over, I agree with others' advice to just adjust the grind and trust your taste buds. You've got great tastes and I'm sure you won't go wrong. Another alternative would be to use a different type of pour-over. I haven't looked super-close at them recently, but I know different models have different size holes which influence the flow rate and extraction time. Would a pour-over with larger holes make the difference? Not something I've tried myself yet, but might be worth a look.</p>
<p></p>
<p>As for the tangent that came up regarding the importance of offering decaf, I've long thought that attitudes about decaf in this industry are all wrong - I constantly hear people say things like "who cares how the decaf tastes?" or "why bother?"</p>
<p></p>
<p>The thing a lot of people don't seem to get is that many regular coffee drinkers are feeding their caffeine addiction - they'll pick better flavor if they can, but they're gonna get their fix regardless. On the other hand, anyone who comes in and orders decaf coffee is doing so only because they like the flavor of coffee. There's no addiction there - the only reason to order it at all is because they like the taste of coffee. So why would we pay less attention to the details, buy cheaper coffee, utilize worse equipment, etc. in the preparation of decaf coffees? Decaf drinkers are the purest coffee lovers of them all! We all know that it's hard to find good decafs and that even the best rarely measure up against regular coffees, but I think we owe customers our absolute best effort to serve good decaf along with our other great coffees.</p> I've noticed how decaf brews…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2012-01-17:1688216:Comment:13411252012-01-17T00:52:27.123ZGary Thttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/GaryT
<p>I've noticed how decaf brews slower as well. It seems that roasted decaf coffee is less dense than 'regular' coffee - so it grinds differently, more fines. It would be interesting to see a micro picture comparing the grinds. We've all noticed how a lighter roast (or a more dense coffee) will require a finer grind for espresso extraction than a less dense darker coffee. Typically darker roasts will require a coarse grind than a lighter. So I believe that the decaf process compromises the…</p>
<p>I've noticed how decaf brews slower as well. It seems that roasted decaf coffee is less dense than 'regular' coffee - so it grinds differently, more fines. It would be interesting to see a micro picture comparing the grinds. We've all noticed how a lighter roast (or a more dense coffee) will require a finer grind for espresso extraction than a less dense darker coffee. Typically darker roasts will require a coarse grind than a lighter. So I believe that the decaf process compromises the cellular structure of the coffee, which would also explain how decaf tend to roast quicker, especially in the last stages, and takes on heat differently. So my advice would be to coarsen the grind a bit - or it might be worth trying activating the burrs and slowly adding the coffee your grinding ... this will grind the coffee differently and may help with the fines. But that's just a guess. I'm also curious if moisture content in the roasted coffee is different between regular and decaf.</p> We offer:
3 espresso options-…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2012-01-16:1688216:Comment:13408262012-01-16T01:11:42.288ZBryan Wrayhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/BryanWray
<p>We offer:</p>
<p>3 espresso options- "house blend," rotating single origin and decaf<br></br>Pour over- Chemex, Clever, V60 and Beehouse<br></br>French Press<br></br>Siphon/Vacuum Pot<br></br>Swiss Gold<br></br>Aeropress </p>
<p></p>
<p>Decaf functions the same in all of the methods unless we adjust the grind accordingly. In fact because of the problems with stalling we don't offer decaf through siphon. I get increased resistance in a French press and in an Aeropress with decaf.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Why would a…</p>
<p>We offer:</p>
<p>3 espresso options- "house blend," rotating single origin and decaf<br/>Pour over- Chemex, Clever, V60 and Beehouse<br/>French Press<br/>Siphon/Vacuum Pot<br/>Swiss Gold<br/>Aeropress </p>
<p></p>
<p>Decaf functions the same in all of the methods unless we adjust the grind accordingly. In fact because of the problems with stalling we don't offer decaf through siphon. I get increased resistance in a French press and in an Aeropress with decaf.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Why would a caffeinated pour over work in your demographic but not a decaf one? That seems extremely strange to me.</p>
<p>"Hi, can I please get a 12oz decaf coffee to-go?"<br/>"Sure! Just so you know we brew each cup of decaf one cup at a time *points at pour over brewing method* to ensure that every cup is fresh. Just because it's decaf doesn't mean it shouldn't be given special attention, right?! Our decaf volume just doesn't justify brewing a big pot all at once and we think this is the best way to bring great decaf coffee to you. It'll take just a minute, but the cup will be worth it."</p>
<p>If a customer has a problem with that then their probably not your target market at all, decaf or not.<br/><br/>I think the question has become: "Because decaf functions differently, what are you doing to compensate for that?"</p>
<p></p>
<p>-bry</p> Bryan, I'm not sure if you we…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2012-01-15:1688216:Comment:13405742012-01-15T22:26:21.219ZJeff Hoeppnerhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/JeffHoeppner
<p>Bryan, I'm not sure if you were asking a question there, but I will offer this much. I will sacrifice profit margin, not quality, for a happy customer. That said, in my market, a decaf pour over would not fly. If your market demands it, I agree that my suggestion would not be acceptable. I have not tried a pour over with decaf before, but now I'm curious to see the results. Now then, I hope you find something that works for you.</p>
<p></p>
<p>If I may be so bold, have you experimented with…</p>
<p>Bryan, I'm not sure if you were asking a question there, but I will offer this much. I will sacrifice profit margin, not quality, for a happy customer. That said, in my market, a decaf pour over would not fly. If your market demands it, I agree that my suggestion would not be acceptable. I have not tried a pour over with decaf before, but now I'm curious to see the results. Now then, I hope you find something that works for you.</p>
<p></p>
<p>If I may be so bold, have you experimented with other brew methods? If customers are looking specifically for pour over, then this wouldn't work either, but I'd suggest trying Aeropress. There are tons of different methods, so I'm sure there would be something that would function well and taste right.</p> yah, Jeff, that's not an acce…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2012-01-15:1688216:Comment:13403102012-01-15T14:51:28.185Zteresa pilarzhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/teresa98
<p>yah, Jeff, that's not an acceptable option to just NOT offer a decaf pour over. We do hand pours exclusively, so there would be no other option for those that don't want an americano. Besides, our decaf tastes fantastic; it's just a matter of working to optimize it. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Agree w/ Bry as well... Decaf should in fact be more expensive because of the added cost of processing. We are currently charging the same price for all our pour overs to simplify things on the register, but…</p>
<p>yah, Jeff, that's not an acceptable option to just NOT offer a decaf pour over. We do hand pours exclusively, so there would be no other option for those that don't want an americano. Besides, our decaf tastes fantastic; it's just a matter of working to optimize it. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Agree w/ Bry as well... Decaf should in fact be more expensive because of the added cost of processing. We are currently charging the same price for all our pour overs to simplify things on the register, but eventually would like to get to charging actual market price per bean.</p>
<p></p>
<p>And very true, Mike. I'm going to try a few experiments on the roasting end for a gentler approach. In theory, decaf is one of our lightest roasted beans (end temp is only 425f), but with oil developing on the surface within a couple days, I think I have to stop comparing them to how the other beans behave.</p> Decaf coffees always look dar…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2012-01-15:1688216:Comment:13404302012-01-15T04:27:29.575ZMike McGinnesshttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/miKemcKoffeeakaMikeMcGinness
<p>Decaf coffees <strong>always</strong> look darker on the surface. The question is how dark are they ground, that is how you tell how to dial in the roast finish temp. And taste of course. And yes, indeed they need a much gentler hand roasting. Decaf coffees also stale much faster.</p>
<p>Decaf coffees <strong>always</strong> look darker on the surface. The question is how dark are they ground, that is how you tell how to dial in the roast finish temp. And taste of course. And yes, indeed they need a much gentler hand roasting. Decaf coffees also stale much faster.</p> Jeff that logic is probably a…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2012-01-15:1688216:Comment:13402902012-01-15T03:22:31.734ZBryan Wrayhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/BryanWray
<p>Jeff that logic is probably as backwards as I can figure. The parameters for a decaf pour over aren't going to change that much from day to day so if you have a small number of decaf pour overs it doesn't matter, the parameters are the same. You can step up to your first decaf pour over of the day and know where your parameters need to be, even if it's been 24 hours since you've made a decaf beverage. The problem with decaf espresso, however, is that all espresso parameters, decaf or not,…</p>
<p>Jeff that logic is probably as backwards as I can figure. The parameters for a decaf pour over aren't going to change that much from day to day so if you have a small number of decaf pour overs it doesn't matter, the parameters are the same. You can step up to your first decaf pour over of the day and know where your parameters need to be, even if it's been 24 hours since you've made a decaf beverage. The problem with decaf espresso, however, is that all espresso parameters, decaf or not, change so drastically from hour to hour, morning to evening, day to day. </p>
<p></p>
<p>In order to get a decaf espresso shot within the correct parameters (depending on what your definition of quality is and how much tolerance you allow) you are probably going to have to waste 2-3 shots of espresso. Assuming your dose is around 18 grams, that's 54 grams of total coffee for one Americano.</p>
<p></p>
<p>On the other hand, the grind settings, dose, pour pattern and timing for a pour over are going to be the same every time, so there is no wasted coffee involved. So if you use, let's say 25g of coffee for a 12oz pour over, you <strong>only</strong> use 25g.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Also, decaf is <strong>more</strong> expensive than regular. Why charge less for a decaf Americano than a regular Americano?</p>
<p></p>
<p>Either offer decaf or don't, but the mindset of "this is a necessary evil so let's just get it over with" needs to go away. If decaf is truly less than 2% of your market than why offer it at all? Why dedicate a $500+ piece of equipment and a few feet of counter space to something that is seen as an inconvenience?</p>
<p></p>
<p><a href="http://www.roastmagazine.com/resources/Roast_MarApr11_DecstDecaf.pdf" target="_blank">Read more on this issue here. http://www.roastmagazine.com/resources/Roast_MarApr11_DecstDecaf.pdf</a></p>
<p></p>
<p>If your decaf percentage is less than 2% I'd suggest you evaluate why that is because the market for decaf coffee is out there and it's growing. If you're receiving that small a share of the market you may want to reevaluate both your decaf beans themselves and also your approach to them, how they are brewed and the customers who are seeking them out.</p>
<p></p>
<p>-bry</p>
<p><a href="http://www.roastmagazine.com/resources/Roast_MarApr11_DecstDecaf.pdf" target="_blank"></a></p> My question is why do a decaf…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2012-01-14:1688216:Comment:13400562012-01-14T16:43:13.119ZJeff Hoeppnerhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/JeffHoeppner
<p>My question is why do a decaf pour over at all? If you're experiences are anything like mine, decaf drinkers make up a small percentage of business, as in maybe 2% on the high side. Our only decaf option is espresso. If someone wants a decaf coffee, we make a decaf americano. They're always happy with that option. Typically we charge a bit more for americanos, but we charge the drip coffee price for decaf. The vast majority of decaf drinks we sell are lattes anyway.</p>
<p>My question is why do a decaf pour over at all? If you're experiences are anything like mine, decaf drinkers make up a small percentage of business, as in maybe 2% on the high side. Our only decaf option is espresso. If someone wants a decaf coffee, we make a decaf americano. They're always happy with that option. Typically we charge a bit more for americanos, but we charge the drip coffee price for decaf. The vast majority of decaf drinks we sell are lattes anyway.</p> as i mentioned in the origina…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2012-01-13:1688216:Comment:13394592012-01-13T15:58:06.141Zteresa pilarzhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/teresa98
<p>as i mentioned in the original post, we typically grind decaf a bit coarser as a general practice. perhaps it's not coarse enough tho<br/> <br/> <cite>Jay Caragay said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/slow-decaf-pour-overs?commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A1338975&xg_source=msg_com_forum#1688216Comment1338980"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Have you tried adjusting your grind?</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>as i mentioned in the original post, we typically grind decaf a bit coarser as a general practice. perhaps it's not coarse enough tho<br/> <br/> <cite>Jay Caragay said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/slow-decaf-pour-overs?commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A1338975&xg_source=msg_com_forum#1688216Comment1338980"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Have you tried adjusting your grind?</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote> Have you tried adjusting your…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2012-01-12:1688216:Comment:13389802012-01-12T22:06:14.919ZJay Caragayhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/JayCaragay
<p>Have you tried adjusting your grind?</p>
<p>Have you tried adjusting your grind?</p>