Offering coffee from multiple roasters - Barista Exchange2024-03-28T18:39:20Zhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/offering-coffee-from-multiple?commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A774884&feed=yes&xn_auth=noThe whole notion of airpots a…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-02-12:1688216:Comment:7749162010-02-12T14:18:57.614ZStefan Hershhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/StefanHersh
The whole notion of airpots at all is something we let go of in favor of brew-to-order quality, but, like offering multiple roasters coffee, this is philosophical decision not a business one. Also for quality reasons we don't offer larger drinks than 12 oz. We know that we lose a lot of business because people must pay more for less liquid, for which they must wait longer. I don't recommend these measures to others: running a business is hard enough.<br />
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<cite>Patrick A. Payne…</cite>
The whole notion of airpots at all is something we let go of in favor of brew-to-order quality, but, like offering multiple roasters coffee, this is philosophical decision not a business one. Also for quality reasons we don't offer larger drinks than 12 oz. We know that we lose a lot of business because people must pay more for less liquid, for which they must wait longer. I don't recommend these measures to others: running a business is hard enough.<br />
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<cite>Patrick A. Payne said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/offering-coffee-from-multiple?id=1688216%3ATopic%3A772270&page=3#1688216Comment774875"><div>This is a great thread because I am a new business and had pretty much the same idea. I want to chose the best coffees for each application- regardless of the roaster. If I believe one has the best beans for espresso, then I want to use it even if I prefer another roaster for my specialty drinks. Then there is pour over and press coffee that may be from different roasters too. At the moment, I have two roasters that I intend to use, CoffeeAM and Counter Culture. I've been sampling their coffees and doing some marketing with them by taking airpots full of their coffees to work with me to get comments. I work on a Navy base, so there are lots of coffee drinkers with opinions here! I've been doing this for a week now, bringing 2 airpots with different coffees each day. The comments have all been positive, but there are some clear winners. It has allowed me to figure out which coffee I want to have available every day and which ones I want to put into some kind of rotation that I haven't quite worked out yet. I want to keep it simple, but interesting.<br/> <br/>
I haven't started doing business yet and have time to think on all of this, but offering different coffees from different roasters makes some sense to me. Does anyone have any advice as to why this approach should not be used?</div>
</blockquote> We do this at our shop. We us…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-02-12:1688216:Comment:7748842010-02-12T13:48:59.211ZJared Browershttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/JaredBrowers
We do this at our shop. We use Intelligentsia and Small World Coffee (Princeton NJ)<br />
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I was using just Small World Exclusively for a few years but switched over to Black Cat for our espresso after a ridiculous weeks worth of no sleep due to extreme taste testing between the two coffees.<br />
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I just really like the extraction overall from the Black Cat compared to Small Worlds mainly South American espresso blend. We still love Small World Coffee and it is always fresh roasted and shipped to us that…
We do this at our shop. We use Intelligentsia and Small World Coffee (Princeton NJ)<br />
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I was using just Small World Exclusively for a few years but switched over to Black Cat for our espresso after a ridiculous weeks worth of no sleep due to extreme taste testing between the two coffees.<br />
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I just really like the extraction overall from the Black Cat compared to Small Worlds mainly South American espresso blend. We still love Small World Coffee and it is always fresh roasted and shipped to us that day. We still brew up some of their blends such as Grumpy Monkey, Rocket Blend, and Organic Love Blend. These are all heavily doused with Papua New Guinea beans witch our customers seem to love.<br />
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Since the addition of the Intelligentsia Line we have seen an uptick in the bulk bean sales for BOTH brands. WE offer them at two different price points which gives them a distinct difference on the shelf. It also gives our baristas the chance to talk up the coffees and compare, contrast, etc. The less expensive coffee from Small World (about 2.50 less/pound) seems more approachable to newbies that are just getting into more complex coffees..(Not just a cup of joe).<br />
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We also own and run a wine shop and I think that compares well with the whole pricing idea. People will pick up a $10 - $12 bottle of wine but need to be sold the $40 bottle This is a great thread becaus…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-02-12:1688216:Comment:7748752010-02-12T13:31:25.993ZPatrick A. Paynehttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/PatrickAPayne
This is a great thread because I am a new business and had pretty much the same idea. I want to chose the best coffees for each application- regardless of the roaster. If I believe one has the best beans for espresso, then I want to use it even if I prefer another roaster for my specialty drinks. Then there is pour over and press coffee that may be from different roasters too. At the moment, I have two roasters that I intend to use, CoffeeAM and Counter Culture. I've been sampling their coffees…
This is a great thread because I am a new business and had pretty much the same idea. I want to chose the best coffees for each application- regardless of the roaster. If I believe one has the best beans for espresso, then I want to use it even if I prefer another roaster for my specialty drinks. Then there is pour over and press coffee that may be from different roasters too. At the moment, I have two roasters that I intend to use, CoffeeAM and Counter Culture. I've been sampling their coffees and doing some marketing with them by taking airpots full of their coffees to work with me to get comments. I work on a Navy base, so there are lots of coffee drinkers with opinions here! I've been doing this for a week now, bringing 2 airpots with different coffees each day. The comments have all been positive, but there are some clear winners. It has allowed me to figure out which coffee I want to have available every day and which ones I want to put into some kind of rotation that I haven't quite worked out yet. I want to keep it simple, but interesting.<br />
<br />
I haven't started doing business yet and have time to think on all of this, but offering different coffees from different roasters makes some sense to me. Does anyone have any advice as to why this approach should not be used? I personally like this idea t…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-02-10:1688216:Comment:7730772010-02-10T06:49:42.267ZAlun Evanshttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/AlunEvans
I personally like this idea too. You know, if you go into a quality restaurant they offer wines from a number of top vineyards, not just one. Conversely a boutique bar will offer a range of beers from brewers- not just from one big, bad beer company! I guess(as already mentioned by a couple of posters) the issue is going to be support and machines. If a rental machine is involved, obviously this torpedos the idea of carrying a range of coffees....then again, I am not sur how big the machine…
I personally like this idea too. You know, if you go into a quality restaurant they offer wines from a number of top vineyards, not just one. Conversely a boutique bar will offer a range of beers from brewers- not just from one big, bad beer company! I guess(as already mentioned by a couple of posters) the issue is going to be support and machines. If a rental machine is involved, obviously this torpedos the idea of carrying a range of coffees....then again, I am not sur how big the machine supply/coffee contract deal is in the US? In NZ/Australia most coffee companies went with machines supplied on 2-3 year coffee contracts because they could see this exact issue playing a part in the future of the markets. The way around this was ultimatley to roast your own: which may explain the shape of the antipodean markets as they stand today. Well the potential volume dis…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-02-10:1688216:Comment:7729732010-02-10T04:07:16.801ZStefan Hershhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/StefanHersh
Well the potential volume discount is only part of the equation but in fact that aspect of the "theory" is indeed unproven in my experience. Offering choice is certainly a competitive advantage in mature markets like San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle, but that advantage is less evident in our relatively immature market in Chicago.<br />
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<cite>Brady said:…</cite>
Well the potential volume discount is only part of the equation but in fact that aspect of the "theory" is indeed unproven in my experience. Offering choice is certainly a competitive advantage in mature markets like San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle, but that advantage is less evident in our relatively immature market in Chicago.<br />
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<cite>Brady said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/offering-coffee-from-multiple?id=1688216%3ATopic%3A772270&page=2#1688216Comment772765"><div><cite>Stefan Hersh said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/offering-coffee-from-multiple?page=2&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A772746&x=1#1688216Comment772738"><div>As articulated elsewhere here it is simply much more economical to buy quantity from one source at as steep a discount as possible. That means one coffee order instead of many, a training regimen suited to one coffee and presumably a volume discount. To manage accounts with multiple roasters is a commitment of much greater resources: time and money both.<br/> <cite>Brady said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/offering-coffee-from-multiple?id=1688216%3ATopic%3A772270&page=2#1688216Comment772676"><div><cite>Stefan Hersh said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/offering-coffee-from-multiple?x=1&id=1688216%3ATopic%3A772270&page=1#1688216Comment772333"><div>If your model is strictly business then the multiple roasts concept is difficult to defend.</div>
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Why do you say that?<br/>
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In many industries, it is recommended practice to source multiple suppliers for purchased goods. It gives you options when you have availability issues or price disagreements with one supplier. That's a pretty sound business policy.</div>
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Theoretically, yes. Real-world, not so much.<br/>
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Have you actually found that the difference between being a 80lb-a-week and being a 40lb-a-week customer severely changes your bargaining position with your supplier? Is there any PRICE bargaining power at all in the volumes that your average shop buys?<br/>
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Buying in volume works great for cups, but for perishable product?</div>
</blockquote> miKe mcKoffee aka Mike McGinn…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-02-10:1688216:Comment:7729652010-02-10T03:56:54.362ZBradyhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/Brady
<cite>miKe mcKoffee aka Mike McGinness said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/offering-coffee-from-multiple?page=2&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A772944&x=1#1688216Comment772944"><div>Depending on the roaster I can unequivocally say Hell Yes. Especially in this economy. He asked, I crunched the numbers. It hurts the bottom line and my own struggle to keep my doors open but I just gave a struggling wholesale cafe customer a temporary 20% <i>recession…</i></div>
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<cite>miKe mcKoffee aka Mike McGinness said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/offering-coffee-from-multiple?page=2&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A772944&x=1#1688216Comment772944"><div>Depending on the roaster I can unequivocally say Hell Yes. Especially in this economy. He asked, I crunched the numbers. It hurts the bottom line and my own struggle to keep my doors open but I just gave a struggling wholesale cafe customer a temporary 20% <i>recession discount</i> even though my actual cost of greens has gone up 18% in the last year and 10.3% just since the end of October '09. I'm in it for the long haul and will bend over backwards helping a loyal customer survive, whatever it takes. I would not give the same discount to a onsie twosie account.<br/> <cite>Brady said:</cite><blockquote><br/>Is there any PRICE bargaining power at all in the volumes that your average shop buys?<br/><br/>Buying in volume works great for cups, but for perishable product?</blockquote>
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Hmmm. Very interesting, Mike. Thanks for adding that.<br />
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For the record, I should say that we've used the same roaster exclusively since we opened. As a good friend of mine has said, coffee is a relationship business. Depending on the roaster I ca…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-02-10:1688216:Comment:7729442010-02-10T03:17:52.543ZMike McGinnesshttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/miKemcKoffeeakaMikeMcGinness
Depending on the roaster I can unequivocally say Hell Yes. Especially in this economy. He asked, I crunched the numbers. It hurts the bottom line and my own struggle to keep my doors open but I just gave a struggling wholesale cafe customer a temporary 20% <i>recession discount</i> even though my actual cost of greens has gone up 18% in the last year and 10.3% just since the end of October '09. I'm in it for the long haul and will bend over backwards helping a loyal customer survive, whatever…
Depending on the roaster I can unequivocally say Hell Yes. Especially in this economy. He asked, I crunched the numbers. It hurts the bottom line and my own struggle to keep my doors open but I just gave a struggling wholesale cafe customer a temporary 20% <i>recession discount</i> even though my actual cost of greens has gone up 18% in the last year and 10.3% just since the end of October '09. I'm in it for the long haul and will bend over backwards helping a loyal customer survive, whatever it takes. I would not give the same discount to a onsie twosie account.<br />
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<cite>Brady said:</cite><blockquote><br/>Is there any PRICE bargaining power at all in the volumes that your average shop buys?<br/><br/>Buying in volume works great for cups, but for perishable product?</blockquote> How about a "Loyal to The Bea…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-02-10:1688216:Comment:7729162010-02-10T02:22:21.269ZJason Shipleyhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/JasonShipley
How about a "Loyal to The Bean" card with your logo on the front and the roasters you feature on the back?<br />
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<cite>Stefan Hersh said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/offering-coffee-from-multiple?x=1&id=1688216%3ATopic%3A772270&page=2#1688216Comment772742"><div>We sell beans from each roaster they way the sell them. We even go as far as having our baristas wear shirts from other coffee houses and we have been toying with the idea starting a "disloyalty…</div>
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How about a "Loyal to The Bean" card with your logo on the front and the roasters you feature on the back?<br />
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<cite>Stefan Hersh said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/offering-coffee-from-multiple?x=1&id=1688216%3ATopic%3A772270&page=2#1688216Comment772742"><div>We sell beans from each roaster they way the sell them. We even go as far as having our baristas wear shirts from other coffee houses and we have been toying with the idea starting a "disloyalty card" here in Chicago.<br/> <br/>
<cite>Brady said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/offering-coffee-from-multiple?id=1688216%3ATopic%3A772270&page=2#1688216Comment772679"><div>Here's a related question for you multiple-roaster shops... Do you sell beans and coffees under the roaster's name, or under yours? I can see benefits of both approaches, and am curious what the experiences have been.<br/> <br/> Another item to add to the discussion - there are some very good roasters that only do exclusive arrangements.<br/>
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Good discussion.</div>
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</blockquote> Stefan Hersh said:As articula…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-02-09:1688216:Comment:7727652010-02-09T22:56:48.893ZBradyhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/Brady
<cite>Stefan Hersh said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/offering-coffee-from-multiple?page=2&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A772746&x=1#1688216Comment772738"><div>As articulated elsewhere here it is simply much more economical to buy quantity from one source at as steep a discount as possible. That means one coffee order instead of many, a training regimen suited to one coffee and presumably a volume discount. To manage accounts with multiple roasters…</div>
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<cite>Stefan Hersh said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/offering-coffee-from-multiple?page=2&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A772746&x=1#1688216Comment772738"><div>As articulated elsewhere here it is simply much more economical to buy quantity from one source at as steep a discount as possible. That means one coffee order instead of many, a training regimen suited to one coffee and presumably a volume discount. To manage accounts with multiple roasters is a commitment of much greater resources: time and money both.<br/>
<cite>Brady said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/offering-coffee-from-multiple?id=1688216%3ATopic%3A772270&page=2#1688216Comment772676"><div><cite>Stefan Hersh said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/offering-coffee-from-multiple?x=1&id=1688216%3ATopic%3A772270&page=1#1688216Comment772333"><div>If your model is strictly business then the multiple roasts concept is difficult to defend.</div>
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<br />
Why do you say that?<br />
<br />
In many industries, it is recommended practice to source multiple suppliers for purchased goods. It gives you options when you have availability issues or price disagreements with one supplier. That's a pretty sound business policy.</div>
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Theoretically, yes. Real-world, not so much.<br />
<br />
Have you actually found that the difference between being a 80lb-a-week and being a 40lb-a-week customer severely changes your bargaining position with your supplier? Is there any PRICE bargaining power at all in the volumes that your average shop buys?<br />
<br />
Buying in volume works great for cups, but for perishable product? One could argue that the addi…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-02-09:1688216:Comment:7727462010-02-09T22:42:02.994ZJIm Saboriohttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/JImSaborio
One could argue that the additional expense in terms of time and money is buying competitive advantage. We brew EVERY cup to order. Sure it would be easier and more cost effective to brew a big urn of swill, but would I have as many customers?
One could argue that the additional expense in terms of time and money is buying competitive advantage. We brew EVERY cup to order. Sure it would be easier and more cost effective to brew a big urn of swill, but would I have as many customers?