Leaky El Salvatore Home Machine - Barista Exchange2024-03-29T02:25:07Zhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/leaky-el-salvatore-home?commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A990627&feed=yes&xn_auth=noChris said:
I don't recal…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-12-30:1688216:Comment:9919892010-12-30T03:58:26.209ZChrishttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/Chris60
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<cite>Chris said:</cite><br />
<div><p> I don't recall any reason that you'd have to disconnect the machine from it's water supply if it's plumbed. IIRC, the valve is normally open, and will only close when you pull a shot, yeah?</p>
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It takes a big man to admit when he's wrong, and I'm feelin' pretty big at the moment. And very wrong.<br />
While you may not need to disco any plumbing, shutting it off is a great idea. And if 'off' doesn't completely stop the flow of water, you're…
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<cite>Chris said:</cite><br />
<div><p> I don't recall any reason that you'd have to disconnect the machine from it's water supply if it's plumbed. IIRC, the valve is normally open, and will only close when you pull a shot, yeah?</p>
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It takes a big man to admit when he's wrong, and I'm feelin' pretty big at the moment. And very wrong.<br />
While you may not need to disco any plumbing, shutting it off is a great idea. And if 'off' doesn't completely stop the flow of water, you're going to have water running down your elbows and dripping past the drip-tray and all over the front of your pants on it;s way to the floor. DAMHIK,IJK.<br />
Well, Karma decided I'd better put my money where my mouth is, and I had a leaky left group this morning. I had to go buy a truck all day, so I got to play with it when I returned this evening.<br />
Disco from the plumbing if you get the opportunity.<br />
Mine turned out to be a weak spring. I disassembled, cleaned, and reassembled, way proud of myself for getting it to stop leaking. One pull, however, and it was back to it's old tricks. Not a drip...drip. drip.. either. Almost the equivalent of the flow on a great shot. Disassembled, and added some 'power' to the spring (as a temporary measure 'til I could replace it) by stretching it just a bit. Yep, I broke it. So I really over-stretched it and replaced it so that I could use the Right group til I got parts. I'm thinking I may just replace the spring if I can get one, or just the solenoid cylinder . I dunno, maybe just the whole thing. I'll let my expert repair technicians make the call. After careful inspection, I f…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-12-30:1688216:Comment:9918962010-12-30T00:40:01.062ZDaniel Demershttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/DanielDemers
<p>After careful inspection, I found that the bottom of the nucleus had a small rubber piece in the middle of it that sealed the bottom of the valve, but it was no longer there, so there was a poor seal which caused leakage. I couldn't really find a replacement for that tiny piece of rubber, so I tried cementing a piece on there myself and see what happened. It ended up being more rubber cement than anything, and after it dried it actually worked for about 2 or 3 pulls, then it started…</p>
<p>After careful inspection, I found that the bottom of the nucleus had a small rubber piece in the middle of it that sealed the bottom of the valve, but it was no longer there, so there was a poor seal which caused leakage. I couldn't really find a replacement for that tiny piece of rubber, so I tried cementing a piece on there myself and see what happened. It ended up being more rubber cement than anything, and after it dried it actually worked for about 2 or 3 pulls, then it started leaking again. </p>
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<p>I decided to replace the nucleus in the end, and I was able to get that from espresso parts, so all will be well in the end.</p>
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<p>Thanks for all the info Brady, I learned a lot with this little experiment, and I now know how the three way solenoid works! Eventually I'll figure out the rest of the machine in detail.</p>
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<p>I think I would only show my joy of learning about my machine on this forum, otherwise there's a chance someone would think I was a bit strange....So, thanks!</p> Daniel Demers said:
Just one…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-12-29:1688216:Comment:9916482010-12-29T15:13:16.551ZBradyhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/Brady
<br></br>
<p><cite>Daniel Demers said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/leaky-el-salvatore-home?x=1&id=1688216%3ATopic%3A988896&page=2#1688216Comment991206"><div>Just one more question - When you press the brew button, the nucleus blocks <br></br> the water from going down the drain tube. Is the seal where the nucleus<br></br>
blocks this water at the bottom of the nucleus (when installed in the <br></br>
machine)?…</div>
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<p><cite>Daniel Demers said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/leaky-el-salvatore-home?x=1&id=1688216%3ATopic%3A988896&page=2#1688216Comment991206"><div>Just one more question - When you press the brew button, the nucleus blocks <br/>
the water from going down the drain tube. Is the seal where the nucleus<br/>
blocks this water at the bottom of the nucleus (when installed in the <br/>
machine)? <snip></div>
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<p> </p>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p> </p>
<p><cite>Daniel Demers said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/leaky-el-salvatore-home?x=1&id=1688216%3ATopic%3A988896&page=2#1688216Comment991206"><div>...Because I think if anything this would be the seal that is failing, because everything else looks good...<br/>
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<p><br/>That's what I suspect too. You probably have an issue with either that red seal or its seat.<br/> <br/>
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<p><cite>Daniel Demers said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/leaky-el-salvatore-home?x=1&id=1688216%3ATopic%3A988896&page=2#1688216Comment991206"><div>What would be the best way to repair that seal if I needed to? <br/> <br/></div>
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<p>Not sure what that red sealing material is, but it is pretty tough. When brand new it is perfectly clean and shiny. Over time, minerals and crud can build up on it, creating a film or a little ring. Sometimes a little nick or scratch will compromise it. Same goes for the valve seat, which is machined into the metal valve body parts.</p>
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<p>If your valve is leaking, something has compromised the seal. The trick is figuring out what the problem is and seeing if it is something you can resolve without causing more damage.</p>
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<p>If there's a crusty buildup on the seat, you might try carefully scraping it off. I have a small screwdriver that has no sharp corners or edges that I use to scrape off crust. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. If there is a scratch or nick on it, it probably won't work. If there is a crusty buildup on the seat, you might try soaking it in descale or Cafiza, then cleaning it with a q-tip, pencil eraser, or screwdriver.</p>
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<p>If you don't see anything obviously wrong after a careful inspection, you might just try re-assembling it. Sometimes just taking them apart, cleaning them, and reassembling does the trick.</p>
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<p>It is very likely that you will have to replace this valve. I only stock the entire valve assembly and always replace the entire thing, but it looks like Espresso Parts stocks the various pieces. If you can find the correct valve guide to fit your coil, that'd probably be the way to go. If there's something visibly wrong with the nucleus you might try just replacing that, though if there's a problem with one of the valve guide parts you won't have solved the problem.</p>
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<p>Hope this helps. Good luck and let us know how it goes.</p> Just one more question - When…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-12-28:1688216:Comment:9912062010-12-28T20:03:52.979ZDaniel Demershttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/DanielDemers
Just one more question - When you press the brew button, the nucleus blocks the water from going down the drain tube. Is the seal where the nucleus blocks this water at the bottom of the nucleus (when installed in the machine)? Because I think if anything this would be the seal that is failing, because everything else looks good. What would be the best way to repair that seal if I needed to? <br></br>
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<cite>Daniel Demers said:…</cite>
Just one more question - When you press the brew button, the nucleus blocks the water from going down the drain tube. Is the seal where the nucleus blocks this water at the bottom of the nucleus (when installed in the machine)? Because I think if anything this would be the seal that is failing, because everything else looks good. What would be the best way to repair that seal if I needed to? <br/>
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<cite>Daniel Demers said:</cite><br />
<blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/leaky-el-salvatore-home?id=1688216%3ATopic%3A988896&page=2#1688216Comment991200"><div><p>Got it! You can ignore the last post if you wish!</p>
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<p>It looked fairly clean inside, not much buildup. So what else could be wrong if there is no blockage? A bad spring? Bad coil? I'm not sure about the seals though, as in, where there should be seals and where there shouldn't be. Any suggestions?</p>
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</blockquote> Got it! You can ignore the l…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-12-28:1688216:Comment:9912002010-12-28T19:46:36.817ZDaniel Demershttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/DanielDemers
<p>Got it! You can ignore the last post if you wish!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>It looked fairly clean inside, not much buildup. So what else could be wrong if there is no blockage? A bad spring? Bad coil? I'm not sure about the seals though, as in, where there should be seals and where there shouldn't be. Any suggestions?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Got it! You can ignore the last post if you wish!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>It looked fairly clean inside, not much buildup. So what else could be wrong if there is no blockage? A bad spring? Bad coil? I'm not sure about the seals though, as in, where there should be seals and where there shouldn't be. Any suggestions?</p>
<p> </p> So, are there any volunteers…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-12-28:1688216:Comment:9911562010-12-28T18:20:47.615ZDaniel Demershttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/DanielDemers
<p>So, are there any volunteers who would like to receive this valve guide in the mail to take a shot at it? If you want the challenge I will be more than happy to mail it to you and you can give it your best, but I just clamped this thing onto a bench vise and yanked/bumped the crap out of it, using my leg to add more leverage, and it is not budging. I have conceded and am going to buy a new one. Unless of course you want the deadly valve guide in your mailbox...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Thanks for…</p>
<p>So, are there any volunteers who would like to receive this valve guide in the mail to take a shot at it? If you want the challenge I will be more than happy to mail it to you and you can give it your best, but I just clamped this thing onto a bench vise and yanked/bumped the crap out of it, using my leg to add more leverage, and it is not budging. I have conceded and am going to buy a new one. Unless of course you want the deadly valve guide in your mailbox...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Thanks for all the help with everything else though, so close!</p> Yikes! Just realized that I…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-12-27:1688216:Comment:9908362010-12-27T23:23:58.472ZBradyhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/Brady
<p>Yikes! Just realized that I forgot to mention that I only do that on machines where the group is bolted to the frame - like Aurelia, Rancilio Classe, etc. Sorry I missed that point and glad you didn't do any damage.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Look at it this way... if you have a place to bolt it, a bench vise is about 30 bucks at the hardware store. A new valve is 60 minimum.</p>
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<p>One note on removing your valve - there are 2 little o-rings inside that are important. Make sure you don't…</p>
<p>Yikes! Just realized that I forgot to mention that I only do that on machines where the group is bolted to the frame - like Aurelia, Rancilio Classe, etc. Sorry I missed that point and glad you didn't do any damage.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Look at it this way... if you have a place to bolt it, a bench vise is about 30 bucks at the hardware store. A new valve is 60 minimum.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>One note on removing your valve - there are 2 little o-rings inside that are important. Make sure you don't lose them! ALSO, even after you turn off the water, there will prob still be pressure in the system, so don't be surprised to find a little water when you remove the valve. Have a few towels handy.</p>
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<cite>Daniel Demers said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/leaky-el-salvatore-home?page=1&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A990690&x=1#1688216Comment990794"><div><p>I tried breaking it loose while still in the machine, and I think I was on the verge of breaking off the entire group, so I decided it would be best to seek out a bench vise and go from there. Tried the bumping with no luck, even tried the opposite direction. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Could some WD-40 help out? Or will that not even be able to penetrate into the seams?<br/> <br/> <cite>Brady said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/leaky-el-salvatore-home#1688216Comment990712"><div><p>You should be able to break it loose with a standard wrench. The trick is getting enough grip on the brass base. I generally break it loose while still attached to the group, or secure it in my bench vise.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>General tips for breaking loose a fastener:</p>
<p><br/>Make sure you use a decent wrench that fits the flats very well.</p>
<p>Rather than pulling, bump the end of the wrench handle in the desired direction.</p>
<p>If it is really stuck, try going the opposite direction briefly just to break it loose, then loosen it.</p>
<p>Most of all - BE CAREFUL.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p><cite>Daniel Demers said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/leaky-el-salvatore-home?page=1&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A990690&x=1#1688216Comment990690"><div>Good to know! Any thoughts on how to best tackle this guy? I don't have much at my house, just a couple of monkey wrenches, and all of my power and might cannot get them apart. What kinds of tools would be best suited for this job? <br/> <br/> <cite>Kevin Ayers said:</cite><br/><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/leaky-el-salvatore-home#1688216Comment990627"><div>yes, and yes.<br/><br/><cite>Daniel Demers said:</cite><blockquote><div><p>Thanks for link Brady - very helpful.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I got the valve guide out, and I assumed that I could remove the stem from the base, but it is not budging, and I don't want to put too much torque on it and break something (probably myself if anything). So just to clarify, the brass and silver part of the valve guide do come apart, yes? And are they usually tough to pry apart? Thanks for the help!</p>
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</blockquote> I tried breaking it loose whi…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-12-27:1688216:Comment:9907942010-12-27T21:41:31.769ZDaniel Demershttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/DanielDemers
<p>I tried breaking it loose while still in the machine, and I think I was on the verge of breaking off the entire group, so I decided it would be best to seek out a bench vise and go from there. Tried the bumping with no luck, even tried the opposite direction. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Could some WD-40 help out? Or will that not even be able to penetrate into the seams?<br></br> <br></br> <cite>Brady said:…</cite></p>
<p>I tried breaking it loose while still in the machine, and I think I was on the verge of breaking off the entire group, so I decided it would be best to seek out a bench vise and go from there. Tried the bumping with no luck, even tried the opposite direction. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Could some WD-40 help out? Or will that not even be able to penetrate into the seams?<br/> <br/>
<cite>Brady said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/leaky-el-salvatore-home#1688216Comment990712"><div><p>You should be able to break it loose with a standard wrench. The trick is getting enough grip on the brass base. I generally break it loose while still attached to the group, or secure it in my bench vise.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>General tips for breaking loose a fastener:</p>
<p><br/>Make sure you use a decent wrench that fits the flats very well.</p>
<p>Rather than pulling, bump the end of the wrench handle in the desired direction.</p>
<p>If it is really stuck, try going the opposite direction briefly just to break it loose, then loosen it.</p>
<p>Most of all - BE CAREFUL.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p><cite>Daniel Demers said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/leaky-el-salvatore-home?page=1&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A990690&x=1#1688216Comment990690"><div>Good to know! Any thoughts on how to best tackle this guy? I don't have much at my house, just a couple of monkey wrenches, and all of my power and might cannot get them apart. What kinds of tools would be best suited for this job? <br/> <br/> <cite>Kevin Ayers said:</cite><br/><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/leaky-el-salvatore-home#1688216Comment990627"><div>yes, and yes.<br/><br/><cite>Daniel Demers said:</cite><blockquote><div><p>Thanks for link Brady - very helpful.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I got the valve guide out, and I assumed that I could remove the stem from the base, but it is not budging, and I don't want to put too much torque on it and break something (probably myself if anything). So just to clarify, the brass and silver part of the valve guide do come apart, yes? And are they usually tough to pry apart? Thanks for the help!</p>
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</blockquote> You should be able to break i…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-12-27:1688216:Comment:9907122010-12-27T19:23:39.645ZBradyhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/Brady
<p>You should be able to break it loose with a standard wrench. The trick is getting enough grip on the brass base. I generally break it loose while still attached to the group, or secure it in my bench vise.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>General tips for breaking loose a fastener:</p>
<p><br></br>Make sure you use a decent wrench that fits the flats very well.</p>
<p>Rather than pulling, bump the end of the wrench handle in the desired direction.</p>
<p>If it is really stuck, try going the opposite direction…</p>
<p>You should be able to break it loose with a standard wrench. The trick is getting enough grip on the brass base. I generally break it loose while still attached to the group, or secure it in my bench vise.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>General tips for breaking loose a fastener:</p>
<p><br/>Make sure you use a decent wrench that fits the flats very well.</p>
<p>Rather than pulling, bump the end of the wrench handle in the desired direction.</p>
<p>If it is really stuck, try going the opposite direction briefly just to break it loose, then loosen it.</p>
<p>Most of all - BE CAREFUL.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p><cite>Daniel Demers said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/leaky-el-salvatore-home?page=1&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A990690&x=1#1688216Comment990690"><div>Good to know! Any thoughts on how to best tackle this guy? I don't have much at my house, just a couple of monkey wrenches, and all of my power and might cannot get them apart. What kinds of tools would be best suited for this job? <br/> <br/> <cite>Kevin Ayers said:</cite><br/>
<blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/leaky-el-salvatore-home#1688216Comment990627"><div>yes, and yes.<br/><br/><cite>Daniel Demers said:</cite><blockquote><div><p>Thanks for link Brady - very helpful.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I got the valve guide out, and I assumed that I could remove the stem from the base, but it is not budging, and I don't want to put too much torque on it and break something (probably myself if anything). So just to clarify, the brass and silver part of the valve guide do come apart, yes? And are they usually tough to pry apart? Thanks for the help!</p>
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</blockquote> Good to know! Any thoughts o…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-12-27:1688216:Comment:9906902010-12-27T18:54:20.927ZDaniel Demershttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/DanielDemers
Good to know! Any thoughts on how to best tackle this guy? I don't have much at my house, just a couple of monkey wrenches, and all of my power and might cannot get them apart. What kinds of tools would be best suited for this job? <br></br>
<br></br>
<cite>Kevin Ayers said:</cite><br />
<blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/leaky-el-salvatore-home#1688216Comment990627"><div>yes, and yes.<br></br><br></br><cite>Daniel Demers said:</cite><blockquote><div><p>Thanks for link Brady - very…</p>
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Good to know! Any thoughts on how to best tackle this guy? I don't have much at my house, just a couple of monkey wrenches, and all of my power and might cannot get them apart. What kinds of tools would be best suited for this job? <br/>
<br/>
<cite>Kevin Ayers said:</cite><br />
<blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/leaky-el-salvatore-home#1688216Comment990627"><div>yes, and yes.<br/><br/><cite>Daniel Demers said:</cite><blockquote><div><p>Thanks for link Brady - very helpful.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I got the valve guide out, and I assumed that I could remove the stem from the base, but it is not budging, and I don't want to put too much torque on it and break something (probably myself if anything). So just to clarify, the brass and silver part of the valve guide do come apart, yes? And are they usually tough to pry apart? Thanks for the help!</p>
</div>
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