Grams in dosing - Barista Exchange2024-03-29T09:56:35Zhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/grams-in-dosing?feed=yes&xn_auth=noyea, chris made a lot of sens…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-03-23:1688216:Comment:8084262010-03-23T01:28:08.784ZCody Gordonhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/pandaxcore
yea, chris made a lot of sense.<br />
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at our shop we use four barrel coffee and it does have certain parameters that you can usually get from your roaster. in our case we pull 19-20 gram shots in a time frame in the mid 20's for a 1.5 ounce shot. these are guidelines, but definitely not set in stone rules. coffee acts different given the weather, humidity etc...<br />
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as soon as you put more coffee into the portafilter it is going to take longer for the water to flow through. more coffee equals a longer…
yea, chris made a lot of sense.<br />
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at our shop we use four barrel coffee and it does have certain parameters that you can usually get from your roaster. in our case we pull 19-20 gram shots in a time frame in the mid 20's for a 1.5 ounce shot. these are guidelines, but definitely not set in stone rules. coffee acts different given the weather, humidity etc...<br />
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as soon as you put more coffee into the portafilter it is going to take longer for the water to flow through. more coffee equals a longer shot. a finer grind equals a longer shot. less coffee means less mass to go through, thus a faster shot. a more coarse grind equals a faster shot. coffee will always take the path of least resistance. that is why if you have an unlevel tamp the channeling over extracts one area of your coffee puck, making it stringent.<br />
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ask your roaster for general guidelines and experiment.<br />
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the final judge for your coffee should be your palette.<br />
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<cite>Daniel Williamson said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/grams-in-dosing?id=1688216%3ATopic%3A639600&page=3#1688216Comment800330"><div>Thanks, Chris! That makes more sense to me.</div>
</blockquote> Thanks, Chris! That makes mor…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-03-13:1688216:Comment:8003302010-03-13T21:58:32.282ZDaniel Williamsonhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/DanielArthurWilliamson
Thanks, Chris! That makes more sense to me.
Thanks, Chris! That makes more sense to me. Ok... lets see if i can expla…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-03-13:1688216:Comment:7998232010-03-13T03:40:53.320ZChristopher Zimmermanhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/ChristopherZimmerman
Ok... lets see if i can explain this properly...<br />
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so say the basket you are using is a double... if you dose 14g as opposed to 16g, using the same coffee of course, since we don't want bean density to come into play yet, you have less coffee in the portafilter... and thus it can spread out more making more room for water to flow through...<br />
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think of a room, for this example lets say a 20ftX20ft room... put 30 people in the room and walk from one side to the other... then put 40 people in the…
Ok... lets see if i can explain this properly...<br />
<br />
so say the basket you are using is a double... if you dose 14g as opposed to 16g, using the same coffee of course, since we don't want bean density to come into play yet, you have less coffee in the portafilter... and thus it can spread out more making more room for water to flow through...<br />
<br />
think of a room, for this example lets say a 20ftX20ft room... put 30 people in the room and walk from one side to the other... then put 40 people in the room and do the same thing... you will generally find it harder to walk through the 40 person room... so it will take you longer to get through the 40 person room...<br />
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going back inside the portafilter we can use this comparison to see that a higher dose results in a slower shot since it is harder for the water to get through... a slower shot results in a smaller volume... likewise when you lower the dose it is easier for the water to get through and thus the shot is faster and has a higher volume...<br />
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if you can, pick up a copy of the professional barista handbook by scott rao, it has some great explanations and diagrams that helped me a lot in understanding the reactions that occur...<br />
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hope this helps... cheers<br />
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<cite>Daniel Williamson said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/grams-in-dosing?id=1688216%3ATopic%3A639600&page=2#1688216Comment799588"><div>something I've come across in my experimenting and talking with other baristas, is this: when I down dose, it seems like I pull longer shots; and conversely, when I dose higher, the shot seems shorter (volume-wise, of course).<br/> <br/>
Does anyone else (1) agree with this observation or (2) know the reason why that seems to be the case?<br/>
<br/>
It's nice to pull out those different flavors, and sometimes I switch it up based on my mood. I don't necessarily care about the final volume (as taste rules supreme), it's just an enigma to me because it seems logical that the opposite would be true. I mean, if there's more coffee, I <i>should</i> be able to pull more oils and flavor out (translating into more volume), but the facts state the opposite is true.</div>
</blockquote> Greg Hill said:ok, just assum…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-03-12:1688216:Comment:7996452010-03-12T22:55:20.051ZBradyhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/Brady
<cite>Greg Hill said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/grams-in-dosing?page=2&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A799626&x=1#1688216Comment799626"><div>ok, just assume coffee boiler instead of heat exchanger. the machine doesnt care how much coffee you use, its only going to put out a specific amount of water.<br></br> if your goal is to compare equal shot volumes with different doses, you gotta use the swirly button instead of just the single (or double),…</div>
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<cite>Greg Hill said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/grams-in-dosing?page=2&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A799626&x=1#1688216Comment799626"><div>ok, just assume coffee boiler instead of heat exchanger. the machine doesnt care how much coffee you use, its only going to put out a specific amount of water.<br/> if your goal is to compare equal shot volumes with different doses, you gotta use the swirly button instead of just the single (or double), unless youre partial to preinfusion, in which case you can just stop them early or use the manual switch to override the programming after pre (if you have that configuration), run-on sentence ftw.<br/>
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<cite>Daniel Williamson said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/grams-in-dosing?commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A799580#1688216Comment799607"><div>semi-auto linea<br/> <cite>Greg Hill said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/grams-in-dosing?page=2&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A799602&x=1#1688216Comment799602"><div>are you using a semi auto machine? because the board will only run a preset amount of cold water through the flowmeter into the heat exchanger. more coffee absorbs more water. i almost always use the manual button and nail a particular volume, especially when experimenting. too many variables changing at once makes it a lot more difficult to dial in your preferred settings.<br/> <br/> <cite>Daniel Williamson said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/grams-in-dosing?commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A799580#1688216Comment799588"><div>something I've come across in my experimenting and talking with other baristas, is this: when I down dose, it seems like I pull longer shots; and conversely, when I dose higher, the shot seems shorter (volume-wise, of course).<br/> <br/> Does anyone else (1) agree with this observation or (2) know the reason why that seems to be the case?<br/> <br/> It's nice to pull out those different flavors, and sometimes I switch it up based on my mood. I don't necessarily care about the final volume (as taste rules supreme), it's just an enigma to me because it seems logical that the opposite would be true. I mean, if there's more coffee, I <i>should</i> be able to pull more oils and flavor out (translating into more volume), but the facts state the opposite is true.</div>
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A Semi-auto Linea only has the equivalent of the "swirly button"... no flowmeters.<br />
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Daniel, perhaps you could clarify what you mean. What do you observe? ok, just assume coffee boiler…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-03-12:1688216:Comment:7996262010-03-12T22:11:00.222ZGreg Hillhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/batchburner
ok, just assume coffee boiler instead of heat exchanger. the machine doesnt care how much coffee you use, its only going to put out a specific amount of water.<br />
if your goal is to compare equal shot volumes with different doses, you gotta use the swirly button instead of just the single (or double), unless youre partial to preinfusion, in which case you can just stop them early or use the manual switch to override the programming after pre (if you have that configuration), run-on sentence…
ok, just assume coffee boiler instead of heat exchanger. the machine doesnt care how much coffee you use, its only going to put out a specific amount of water.<br />
if your goal is to compare equal shot volumes with different doses, you gotta use the swirly button instead of just the single (or double), unless youre partial to preinfusion, in which case you can just stop them early or use the manual switch to override the programming after pre (if you have that configuration), run-on sentence ftw.<br />
<br />
<cite>Daniel Williamson said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/grams-in-dosing?commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A799580#1688216Comment799607"><div>semi-auto linea<br/> <cite>Greg Hill said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/grams-in-dosing?page=2&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A799602&x=1#1688216Comment799602"><div>are you using a semi auto machine? because the board will only run a preset amount of cold water through the flowmeter into the heat exchanger. more coffee absorbs more water. i almost always use the manual button and nail a particular volume, especially when experimenting. too many variables changing at once makes it a lot more difficult to dial in your preferred settings.<br/> <br/> <cite>Daniel Williamson said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/grams-in-dosing?commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A799580#1688216Comment799588"><div>something I've come across in my experimenting and talking with other baristas, is this: when I down dose, it seems like I pull longer shots; and conversely, when I dose higher, the shot seems shorter (volume-wise, of course).<br/> <br/> Does anyone else (1) agree with this observation or (2) know the reason why that seems to be the case?<br/> <br/>
It's nice to pull out those different flavors, and sometimes I switch it up based on my mood. I don't necessarily care about the final volume (as taste rules supreme), it's just an enigma to me because it seems logical that the opposite would be true. I mean, if there's more coffee, I <i>should</i> be able to pull more oils and flavor out (translating into more volume), but the facts state the opposite is true.</div>
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</blockquote> semi-auto linea
Greg Hill sai…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-03-12:1688216:Comment:7996072010-03-12T21:54:42.745ZDaniel Williamsonhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/DanielArthurWilliamson
semi-auto linea<br />
<cite>Greg Hill said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/grams-in-dosing?page=2&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A799602&x=1#1688216Comment799602"><div>are you using a semi auto machine? because the board will only run a preset amount of cold water through the flowmeter into the heat exchanger. more coffee absorbs more water. i almost always use the manual button and nail a particular volume, especially when experimenting. too many variables…</div>
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semi-auto linea<br />
<cite>Greg Hill said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/grams-in-dosing?page=2&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A799602&x=1#1688216Comment799602"><div>are you using a semi auto machine? because the board will only run a preset amount of cold water through the flowmeter into the heat exchanger. more coffee absorbs more water. i almost always use the manual button and nail a particular volume, especially when experimenting. too many variables changing at once makes it a lot more difficult to dial in your preferred settings.<br/> <br/>
<cite>Daniel Williamson said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/grams-in-dosing?commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A799580#1688216Comment799588"><div>something I've come across in my experimenting and talking with other baristas, is this: when I down dose, it seems like I pull longer shots; and conversely, when I dose higher, the shot seems shorter (volume-wise, of course).<br/> <br/> Does anyone else (1) agree with this observation or (2) know the reason why that seems to be the case?<br/>
<br/>
It's nice to pull out those different flavors, and sometimes I switch it up based on my mood. I don't necessarily care about the final volume (as taste rules supreme), it's just an enigma to me because it seems logical that the opposite would be true. I mean, if there's more coffee, I <i>should</i> be able to pull more oils and flavor out (translating into more volume), but the facts state the opposite is true.</div>
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</blockquote> are you using a semi auto mac…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-03-12:1688216:Comment:7996022010-03-12T21:46:15.197ZGreg Hillhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/batchburner
are you using a semi auto machine? because the board will only run a preset amount of cold water through the flowmeter into the heat exchanger. more coffee absorbs more water. i almost always use the manual button and nail a particular volume, especially when experimenting. too many variables changing at once makes it a lot more difficult to dial in your preferred settings.<br />
<br />
<cite>Daniel Williamson said:…</cite>
are you using a semi auto machine? because the board will only run a preset amount of cold water through the flowmeter into the heat exchanger. more coffee absorbs more water. i almost always use the manual button and nail a particular volume, especially when experimenting. too many variables changing at once makes it a lot more difficult to dial in your preferred settings.<br />
<br />
<cite>Daniel Williamson said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/grams-in-dosing?commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A799580#1688216Comment799588"><div>something I've come across in my experimenting and talking with other baristas, is this: when I down dose, it seems like I pull longer shots; and conversely, when I dose higher, the shot seems shorter (volume-wise, of course).<br/> <br/>
Does anyone else (1) agree with this observation or (2) know the reason why that seems to be the case?<br/>
<br/>
It's nice to pull out those different flavors, and sometimes I switch it up based on my mood. I don't necessarily care about the final volume (as taste rules supreme), it's just an enigma to me because it seems logical that the opposite would be true. I mean, if there's more coffee, I <i>should</i> be able to pull more oils and flavor out (translating into more volume), but the facts state the opposite is true.</div>
</blockquote> something I've come across in…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-03-12:1688216:Comment:7995882010-03-12T21:18:31.504ZDaniel Williamsonhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/DanielArthurWilliamson
something I've come across in my experimenting and talking with other baristas, is this: when I down dose, it seems like I pull longer shots; and conversely, when I dose higher, the shot seems shorter (volume-wise, of course).<br />
<br />
Does anyone else (1) agree with this observation or (2) know the reason why that seems to be the case?<br />
<br />
It's nice to pull out those different flavors, and sometimes I switch it up based on my mood. I don't necessarily care about the final volume (as taste rules supreme),…
something I've come across in my experimenting and talking with other baristas, is this: when I down dose, it seems like I pull longer shots; and conversely, when I dose higher, the shot seems shorter (volume-wise, of course).<br />
<br />
Does anyone else (1) agree with this observation or (2) know the reason why that seems to be the case?<br />
<br />
It's nice to pull out those different flavors, and sometimes I switch it up based on my mood. I don't necessarily care about the final volume (as taste rules supreme), it's just an enigma to me because it seems logical that the opposite would be true. I mean, if there's more coffee, I <i>should</i> be able to pull more oils and flavor out (translating into more volume), but the facts state the opposite is true. welcome to the wonderfully vo…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-03-12:1688216:Comment:7995802010-03-12T21:08:29.971ZGreg Hillhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/batchburner
welcome to the wonderfully volatile world of espresso!<br />
<br />
<cite>Ricky Sutton said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/grams-in-dosing?commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A799565#1688216Comment799578"><div>I'm surprised at how many responses here essentially say "experiment a lot, find a system that works and stick with it". Were i to say "ok, what tastes best with this coffee is a 19gr. dose, pulling 1.5 oz. in 24 seconds" my coffee would taste great one day, then maybe…</div>
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welcome to the wonderfully volatile world of espresso!<br />
<br />
<cite>Ricky Sutton said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/grams-in-dosing?commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A799565#1688216Comment799578"><div>I'm surprised at how many responses here essentially say "experiment a lot, find a system that works and stick with it". Were i to say "ok, what tastes best with this coffee is a 19gr. dose, pulling 1.5 oz. in 24 seconds" my coffee would taste great one day, then maybe not so great the next. Am i just working with a particularly finicky coffee or do people really believe that a method can be set in stone?<br/> <br/>
One of the opening tasks at my store is to pull a shot at the parameters described above and taste it. At least 50% of the time, it's not good. What's wrong with it determines how they adjust those parameters. My dose could vary from 18gr. to 21gr., my volume could vary from 1 oz. to 2, my shot time from 21 seconds to 27, all depending on what tastes good that day. And the difference could be between it tasting like cherry pie or like a rubber covered copper penny. My coffee likes to be treated quite differently from day to day and from batch to batch. Unless you're using a very simple 2-3 bean blend with not much complexity or dynamics, this seems to be the only way to wrangle those great shots.</div>
</blockquote> a scoop is unreliable as a me…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-03-12:1688216:Comment:7995652010-03-12T20:44:17.807ZGreg Hillhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/batchburner
a scoop is unreliable as a method for measuring mass. volume, ie a scoop, has nothing to do with how much coffee you are using by weight...<br />
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also remember that the italians with robusta blends and 1oz shots established 7g as a standard for them... <i>SO</i> first wave lol.<br />
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<cite>Ali Hojeij said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/grams-in-dosing?xg_source=activity&id=1688216%3ATopic%3A639600&page=2#1688216Comment645718"><div>hi.<br></br> <br></br> To adjust…</div>
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a scoop is unreliable as a method for measuring mass. volume, ie a scoop, has nothing to do with how much coffee you are using by weight...<br />
<br />
also remember that the italians with robusta blends and 1oz shots established 7g as a standard for them... <i>SO</i> first wave lol.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<cite>Ali Hojeij said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/grams-in-dosing?xg_source=activity&id=1688216%3ATopic%3A639600&page=2#1688216Comment645718"><div>hi.<br/> <br/>
To adjust your grinder you need to have a scale, 7g scoop. put the 7g scoop on where the ground coffee come from, let it pour to the scoop and. use the double shot portafilter and put to 7g scoop and try to start extraction, the right shot should be 30ml in 20 sec, if it is too fast that means the grind is course, if it too slow means the grind is soft, here you work on the grinder by turning the adgusment ring until you get the right measure.<br/>
it is important for us to know what kind of grider you have to help more.<br/>
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Single shut =7g<br/>
Double=14g</div>
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