COGS - Espresso based drinks versus drip coffee - Barista Exchange2024-03-29T15:32:14Zhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/cogs-espresso-based-drinks?commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A1142120&feed=yes&xn_auth=noConsider getting rid of the 2…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2011-06-06:1688216:Comment:11562992011-06-06T21:09:07.031ZJeremy Perrinehttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/JeremiahPerrine
<p>Consider getting rid of the 20oz size. </p>
<p>20oz cost more to make yet can't get the same % of mark up as 12oz or 16oz.</p>
<p>We've actually found we sell more 12oz than 16oz. (As, I'm assuming you're selling more 16oz than 20oz). </p>
<p>We sell a 12oz mocha for $4 after tax. Absolutely no complaints. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Find another roaster with a better focus who can sell you better coffee. Yes it'll cost more, but weight the benefits: It'll be fresher coffee, better quality green beans,…</p>
<p>Consider getting rid of the 20oz size. </p>
<p>20oz cost more to make yet can't get the same % of mark up as 12oz or 16oz.</p>
<p>We've actually found we sell more 12oz than 16oz. (As, I'm assuming you're selling more 16oz than 20oz). </p>
<p>We sell a 12oz mocha for $4 after tax. Absolutely no complaints. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Find another roaster with a better focus who can sell you better coffee. Yes it'll cost more, but weight the benefits: It'll be fresher coffee, better quality green beans, more sustainable and most likely will be willing to offer training and/or other resources. </p>
<p>It'll also give you a better reason to charge more. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>People pay for our coffee because they can tell a difference and the know (not feel) that its worth it. </p>
<p> </p> I do carry Fair Trade from a…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2011-06-06:1688216:Comment:11554302011-06-06T06:44:24.243Znohoanahttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/nohoana
<blockquote>I do carry Fair Trade from a micro-roaster and, unfortunately, my competition does not, but the coffee house is also in a small Midwestern town where a lot of the customers do not necessarily understand or care about Fair Trade and why it's more expensive. Do I stick to my guns and set my prices based on 29% GOGS or consider it a 'loss-leader' and maintain comparable retail prices, leaving my COGS at 34-39%, but bringing in customers who will buy food too?</blockquote>
<p>A loss…</p>
<blockquote>I do carry Fair Trade from a micro-roaster and, unfortunately, my competition does not, but the coffee house is also in a small Midwestern town where a lot of the customers do not necessarily understand or care about Fair Trade and why it's more expensive. Do I stick to my guns and set my prices based on 29% GOGS or consider it a 'loss-leader' and maintain comparable retail prices, leaving my COGS at 34-39%, but bringing in customers who will buy food too?</blockquote>
<p>A loss leader, should be viewed as a item that will drive incremental traffic and sales for your store. If Fair Trade coffee doesn't have a demand within your local community, taking a smaller margin on each cup doesn't make it a 'loss leader'</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Have you educated your customers on the benefits of fair trade?</p>
<p>For a small Midwestern town, a <em>buy local</em> campaign could be successful.</p>
<p>Do you offer and bundles? ie 16 oz FT coffee and pastry for $x.xx</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I put this page up to help plan COGS, you should find it pretty helpful</p>
<p><a href="http://nohoana.com/?q=node/32" target="_blank">Explanation and breakdown of COGS</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p> It kinda sounds like you are…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2011-05-28:1688216:Comment:11435732011-05-28T01:30:42.496ZBradyhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/Brady
<p>It kinda sounds like you are using a timer grinder? I find these a little trickier to calibrate, though you can definitely still adjust both weight dispensed and grind settings to get you exactly where you'd like to be. As you've noted, your setting may be a bit coarse. To adjust your grinder, you'll need a couple of screwdrivers and maybe wrenches, plus an accurate scale (having the capability of weighing .05 oz increments or better would be helpful). A G2 or G3 grinder will be even…</p>
<p>It kinda sounds like you are using a timer grinder? I find these a little trickier to calibrate, though you can definitely still adjust both weight dispensed and grind settings to get you exactly where you'd like to be. As you've noted, your setting may be a bit coarse. To adjust your grinder, you'll need a couple of screwdrivers and maybe wrenches, plus an accurate scale (having the capability of weighing .05 oz increments or better would be helpful). A G2 or G3 grinder will be even easier.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Before you make any adjustments, record your current settings, record your starting batch weight, and set aside a sample of ground coffee sample so that you can get back to where you are today. Also, brew a batch without coffee in the basket and measure how much water you actually get so that you know exactly how much water you are dealing with.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>To get to an approximate grind setting, one idea might be to buy a bag at a better chain store and have it ground there for flat-bottomed filter. Many chains have their grinder calibrations checked regularly against samples to make sure everyone is doing it correctly. Your desired grind setting may turn out to be different, but this will get you into the right ballpark.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Adjust your grind setting to match the new sample, then see where your current weight is. If your timer is still set to dispense too much, weigh out your test batches by hand with your scale. Try something in the 4-4.5oz per half gallon range and taste it. If it is too strong and bitter, make your grind a bit coarser and try again. If too weak, make the grind finer (probably not finer than your chain sample though) or increase weight. Play with different combinations of weights and grind settings to get a nice balance. Take good notes and keep samples of grind settings so that you may return to previous settings as needed.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Note that .1 oz weight changes will have significant effects, so try to be very precise.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Once you've settled on a good weight, adjust the timer on your grinder to dispense that weight. You'll want to check several batches to verify consistency.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Taste with an open mind, take good notes, and good luck!</p> Heather, 3.5-4.5 oz of ground…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2011-05-28:1688216:Comment:11439292011-05-28T00:45:14.715ZBradyhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/Brady
<p>Heather, 3.5-4.5 oz of ground coffee per half gallon of brew water is more typical... and with the right grind and temperature will deliver a good, full flavored, and balanced cup.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Out of curiosity, what does your roaster recommend for weights?</p>
<p>Heather, 3.5-4.5 oz of ground coffee per half gallon of brew water is more typical... and with the right grind and temperature will deliver a good, full flavored, and balanced cup.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Out of curiosity, what does your roaster recommend for weights?</p> Hi Mike,
We use a Bunn Twin i…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2011-05-27:1688216:Comment:11427902011-05-27T17:44:13.174ZHeather Yarbroughhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/HeatherYarbrough
<p>Hi Mike,</p>
<p>We use a Bunn Twin into 2.5 L airpots. I use a Bunn burr grinder and we grind just before we brew. Coffee beans are stored in vacuum sealed bags until they go in a hopper, which is filled at the beginning of each day. The grounds are all wet when brewed and, no, the filters do not fall. Our coffee is definitely not sour, we actually receive daily compliments that it's the best coffee in town and that it's very smooth and not bitter like many other places. I am able to…</p>
<p>Hi Mike,</p>
<p>We use a Bunn Twin into 2.5 L airpots. I use a Bunn burr grinder and we grind just before we brew. Coffee beans are stored in vacuum sealed bags until they go in a hopper, which is filled at the beginning of each day. The grounds are all wet when brewed and, no, the filters do not fall. Our coffee is definitely not sour, we actually receive daily compliments that it's the best coffee in town and that it's very smooth and not bitter like many other places. I am able to change the grind, so perhaps I am doing too coarse a grind, allowing too much to be dispensed. I am going to mess with it this weekend to see if I can use a finer grind, creating less volume per pot and see if I can get the same taste.</p>
<p>Thanks so much for your help (everyone)...quantity is obviously my issue in regards to my costs and I think it must be that I need a finer grind with less quantity.</p>
<p> </p> Heather, what do the grounds…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2011-05-27:1688216:Comment:11432592011-05-27T17:29:42.548ZMike Sabolhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/MikeSabol
Heather, what do the grounds in the basket look like after the brew? And what kind of brewer are you using? According to my math you are using 7.27272727oz of coffee for a 2.5L brew. That sounds like a lot. You would get some seriously underextracted and sour coffee at that ratio. I'm thinking that you have a lot of grounds in the basket that are not getting extracted properly. You might be able to tweak some of the settings on the brewer to make better use of your coffee, that is, if the…
Heather, what do the grounds in the basket look like after the brew? And what kind of brewer are you using? According to my math you are using 7.27272727oz of coffee for a 2.5L brew. That sounds like a lot. You would get some seriously underextracted and sour coffee at that ratio. I'm thinking that you have a lot of grounds in the basket that are not getting extracted properly. You might be able to tweak some of the settings on the brewer to make better use of your coffee, that is, if the brewer has any settings to tweak. Also, how do you dose and store the coffee? Do you grind and dose the filters before hand? Are the filters getting folded over on top of each other and then falling over during the brew thereby letting a lot of the water bypass the grounds altogether? Your technique could be making a difference here. Perhaps it's my grind setting…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2011-05-27:1688216:Comment:11429332011-05-27T11:29:16.243ZHeather Yarbroughhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/HeatherYarbrough
Perhaps it's my grind settings. We brew an average of 11 2.5L airpots from a 5# bag. The coffee brews really well and we're constantly told we have the best coffee in town, but maybe we're using too much. I'll measure the ground coffee again and see if I can mess with the grind and still maintain the taste. Thanks for the responses!!<br></br>
<br></br>
<cite>nick placakis said:…</cite>
Perhaps it's my grind settings. We brew an average of 11 2.5L airpots from a 5# bag. The coffee brews really well and we're constantly told we have the best coffee in town, but maybe we're using too much. I'll measure the ground coffee again and see if I can mess with the grind and still maintain the taste. Thanks for the responses!!<br/>
<br/>
<cite>nick placakis said:</cite><br />
<blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/cogs-espresso-based-drinks?commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A1142556&xg_source=msg_com_forum#1688216Comment1142445"><div>Heather, 185 ounces of brewed coffee per pound seems really low. Is that number correct?</div>
</blockquote> Yeah, I'd like to know how yo…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2011-05-27:1688216:Comment:11425562011-05-27T02:42:41.221ZMike McGinnesshttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/miKemcKoffeeakaMikeMcGinness
Yeah, I'd like to know how you're getting quality coffees for $7 a LB range, not possible these days. Not good to really good mid to high 80s coffees no way. Don't even talk about 90+ coffees that price. Cost of greens for my flagship Delirum blend currently average almost $4LB, factor in roast weight loss $5LB, plus cost of bag and label and running roaster and overhead and labor now pushing $6LB COST. Sell it for $7? And close the roastery in a couple months regardless the volume. Heck,…
Yeah, I'd like to know how you're getting quality coffees for $7 a LB range, not possible these days. Not good to really good mid to high 80s coffees no way. Don't even talk about 90+ coffees that price. Cost of greens for my flagship Delirum blend currently average almost $4LB, factor in roast weight loss $5LB, plus cost of bag and label and running roaster and overhead and labor now pushing $6LB COST. Sell it for $7? And close the roastery in a couple months regardless the volume. Heck, a Kenya I just brought in cost me $7.95LB GREENS inc. shipping! And yes, my retail coffeehouse customers will pay $3 for a 8oz cup of exquisite coffee like this Kenya. Not massed brewed of course. Perhaps that's why your brew…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2011-05-27:1688216:Comment:11424552011-05-27T02:09:31.747ZBradyhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/Brady
Perhaps that's why your brew COGS are so out? What is your actual weight for a 1 gallon batch (knowing that this will not yield a full gallon of coffee)?
Perhaps that's why your brew COGS are so out? What is your actual weight for a 1 gallon batch (knowing that this will not yield a full gallon of coffee)? I agree with Nick. According…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2011-05-27:1688216:Comment:11421952011-05-27T01:20:43.513ZAlexander Stephen Roothttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/AlexanderStephenRoot
<p>I agree with Nick. According to recipes I've followed at corporate stores, we've yielded 128 ounces (1 gallon) from 8 ounces (1/2 a pound) of beans. So we also got 2 gallons from a whole pound. If the numbers are right on your end, check the recipe.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>4 ounces of coffee should give you a pretty solid half gallon of brew.</p>
<p>I agree with Nick. According to recipes I've followed at corporate stores, we've yielded 128 ounces (1 gallon) from 8 ounces (1/2 a pound) of beans. So we also got 2 gallons from a whole pound. If the numbers are right on your end, check the recipe.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>4 ounces of coffee should give you a pretty solid half gallon of brew.</p>