Barista Elbow Anyone else have it? - Barista Exchange2024-03-28T18:59:15Zhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/barista-elbow-anyone-else-have?commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A525514&feed=yes&xn_auth=noJoshua "Yeshi" Longsdorf said…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-06-20:1688216:Comment:5291662009-06-20T02:35:42.856ZAndrew R. Tuckerhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/AndrewRTucker
<cite>Joshua "Yeshi" Longsdorf said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/barista-elbow-anyone-else-have#1688216Comment525922"><div>I've been doing this for years and spent some time on some really busy bars, it's never been a problem. As far as I've been able to gather it's from improper body mechanics during the tamp. Instead of using your arm muscles to deliver the pressure during the tamp try using your arm as a piston and let your body apply the force. It's…</div>
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<cite>Joshua "Yeshi" Longsdorf said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/barista-elbow-anyone-else-have#1688216Comment525922"><div>I've been doing this for years and spent some time on some really busy bars, it's never been a problem. As far as I've been able to gather it's from improper body mechanics during the tamp. Instead of using your arm muscles to deliver the pressure during the tamp try using your arm as a piston and let your body apply the force. It's sort of hard to explain but it's helped everyone I know thats ever had the problem.</div>
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To clarify what I think Joshua Longsdorf was meaning by ' using your arm as a piston' is to change your arm positioning to be as close to a 90 degree angle from the counter. This may be difficult if you are shorter, or have taller counters, but overall, the point is to use the weight of your arm to do the packing, not your wrist. I rest the tamp handle against the base of my thumb (the connective muscle in my hand) and keep my elbow directly above the tamp when working. Granted, I am a bit taller than some folks, but even shorter barista I have trained have been able to make an adjustment to their routine to keep stress down. The pressure is then brought down from my elbow, the majority of the force on my arm is being absorbed at the point where the tamp meets my hand, which is thick muscle. This prevents my wrist from becoming strained as the resistant force does not cause my wrist to flex, which is the beginning of straining our working arms into repetitive stress injuries. I agree with everythign you s…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-06-19:1688216:Comment:5289902009-06-19T23:01:02.950ZJesse -D->https://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/JesseDarrow
I agree with everythign you said here. The reason that I tamp so hard is..well I have tamped on a scale a lot, and I was most consistant when I applied harder pressure. So ultimatly if you are more consisstant when you tamp lightly then that is probably best. Consistancy is king!<br />
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<cite>Sandy Hon said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/barista-elbow-anyone-else-have?x=1&id=1688216%3ATopic%3A525438&page=1#1688216Comment527745"><div>something i've also…</div>
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I agree with everythign you said here. The reason that I tamp so hard is..well I have tamped on a scale a lot, and I was most consistant when I applied harder pressure. So ultimatly if you are more consisstant when you tamp lightly then that is probably best. Consistancy is king!<br />
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<cite>Sandy Hon said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/barista-elbow-anyone-else-have?x=1&id=1688216%3ATopic%3A525438&page=1#1688216Comment527745"><div>something i've also learned over the years is that the amount of pressure that we apply isnt the most important factor of tamping.<br/><br/>technically tamping is the simple act of applying even pressure to the bed of coffee producing a level surface. i find that it is no longer necessary (for me) to apply as much force as i used to back in the day when i would practically stand on my tip toes to apply as much force as i possibly could while tamping. that's what the grinder adjustment is for- simply adjust the grind finer.....and if we think about it- this is how some people (the Italians, is it?) can get by with using no tamper at all!<br/><br/>i apply a gentle force, lift, press down again quickly, polish and remove tamper.<br/><br/>no longer are my wrists forced with that 50 plus pounds of pressure each and every drink.<br/><br/>...now some people prefer to apply as much physical pressure as possible - and that's fine too, i suppose.....IF there is a logical reason for doing so.<br/><br/>kind of like tapping the side of the pf. are we doing these things out of habit or necessity?<br/><br/>in other words, are we doing these things because it's imbedded in our heads, because that's how we've always done it or does our practice truly affect the taste of the beverage that we are preparing in a positive way?</div>
</blockquote> Hmp a few days ago I was comp…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-06-18:1688216:Comment:5278842009-06-18T22:48:04.811ZLindseyhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/Lindsey52
Hmp a few days ago I was complaining how much my elbow ached, it was a dull pain shooting down my arm stemming from my elbow. For the life of me i couldn't understand why it hurt so. I joked saying it was the begining of a heart attack. It didn't even occur to me that it could have anything to do with work... now i'm wondering
Hmp a few days ago I was complaining how much my elbow ached, it was a dull pain shooting down my arm stemming from my elbow. For the life of me i couldn't understand why it hurt so. I joked saying it was the begining of a heart attack. It didn't even occur to me that it could have anything to do with work... now i'm wondering something i've also learned o…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-06-18:1688216:Comment:5277452009-06-18T21:11:02.964ZSandy Honhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/SandyHon
something i've also learned over the years is that the amount of pressure that we apply isnt the most important factor of tamping.<br />
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technically tamping is the simple act of applying even pressure to the bed of coffee producing a level surface. i find that it is no longer necessary (for me) to apply as much force as i used to back in the day when i would practically stand on my tip toes to apply as much force as i possibly could while tamping. that's what the grinder adjustment is for- simply…
something i've also learned over the years is that the amount of pressure that we apply isnt the most important factor of tamping.<br />
<br />
technically tamping is the simple act of applying even pressure to the bed of coffee producing a level surface. i find that it is no longer necessary (for me) to apply as much force as i used to back in the day when i would practically stand on my tip toes to apply as much force as i possibly could while tamping. that's what the grinder adjustment is for- simply adjust the grind finer.....and if we think about it- this is how some people (the Italians, is it?) can get by with using no tamper at all!<br />
<br />
i apply a gentle force, lift, press down again quickly, polish and remove tamper.<br />
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no longer are my wrists forced with that 50 plus pounds of pressure each and every drink.<br />
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...now some people prefer to apply as much physical pressure as possible - and that's fine too, i suppose.....IF there is a logical reason for doing so.<br />
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kind of like tapping the side of the pf. are we doing these things out of habit or necessity?<br />
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in other words, are we doing these things because it's imbedded in our heads, because that's how we've always done it or does our practice truly affect the taste of the beverage that we are preparing in a positive way? I'm not saying your joints ar…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-06-18:1688216:Comment:5277382009-06-18T21:02:35.680ZJesse -D->https://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/JesseDarrow
I'm not saying your joints aren't bent, I'm saying that they don't bend while you are applying the pressure. When I tamp, I get my self set and "locked" into place (pependicular to the counter), and all of the pressure comes from me shifting my body weight via my legs, my arm doesn't really move at all. This gets me around 70lbs of pressure, and no joint problem from tamping, now removing/replacing portafilters that is a differnt story.<br />
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hope that helps brady.
I'm not saying your joints aren't bent, I'm saying that they don't bend while you are applying the pressure. When I tamp, I get my self set and "locked" into place (pependicular to the counter), and all of the pressure comes from me shifting my body weight via my legs, my arm doesn't really move at all. This gets me around 70lbs of pressure, and no joint problem from tamping, now removing/replacing portafilters that is a differnt story.<br />
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hope that helps brady. Jesse -D-> said:I would li…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-06-18:1688216:Comment:5275772009-06-18T17:26:13.172ZBradyhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/Brady
<cite>Jesse -D-> said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/barista-elbow-anyone-else-have?page=1&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A527472&x=1#1688216Comment527472"><div>I would like to add that you can tamp (actual final motion only) without bending any joints in you arm. IF you aren't doing it this way, then why not? Even 30lbs is a lot of stress for your joints, especially when you do it a hundred or more times a day.</div>
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Can you explain…
<cite>Jesse -D-> said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/barista-elbow-anyone-else-have?page=1&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A527472&x=1#1688216Comment527472"><div>I would like to add that you can tamp (actual final motion only) without bending any joints in you arm. IF you aren't doing it this way, then why not? Even 30lbs is a lot of stress for your joints, especially when you do it a hundred or more times a day.</div>
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Can you explain this a bit more please? I have visions of you tamping on a barstool, arm hanging straight down... that can't be it? I would like to add that you…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-06-18:1688216:Comment:5274722009-06-18T16:27:33.169ZJesse -D->https://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/JesseDarrow
I would like to add that you can tamp (actual final motion only) without bending any joints in you arm. IF you aren't doing it this way, then why not? Even 30lbs is a lot of stress for your joints, especially when you do it a hundred or more times a day.
I would like to add that you can tamp (actual final motion only) without bending any joints in you arm. IF you aren't doing it this way, then why not? Even 30lbs is a lot of stress for your joints, especially when you do it a hundred or more times a day. I just want to throw in a STR…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-06-17:1688216:Comment:5264932009-06-17T17:03:03.149ZAndi C. Trindlehttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/AndiCTrindle
I just want to throw in a STRONG recommendation to take a complete break and let the swelling disappear before returning to the specific activities that are inflaming it. I know that this is essentially an impossible request for a working Barista, but I have regretted almost daily not doing just that over 15 years ago.<br />
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I developed problems in my wrists, forearms, and elbow way back (way way back, starting in 1989) when I was behind bar. I ultimately ended up the doctor and was told to stop all…
I just want to throw in a STRONG recommendation to take a complete break and let the swelling disappear before returning to the specific activities that are inflaming it. I know that this is essentially an impossible request for a working Barista, but I have regretted almost daily not doing just that over 15 years ago.<br />
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I developed problems in my wrists, forearms, and elbow way back (way way back, starting in 1989) when I was behind bar. I ultimately ended up the doctor and was told to stop all activities that contributed for two weeks and let myself recover. Choosing to prioritize my need to earn money-- dumbest choice I've ever made, including a bad marriage I swear -- I ignored my doctor. I continued to pull shots during work hours, believing I could just ice, heat, cry, etc. in off-hours. I apparently never left the swelling go down and now I can't do much of anything without inflammation.<br />
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Even longer story short: I have never recovered from the damage and still struggle nearly 20 years later with significant chronic pain. Coincidental to this discussion, I am once again in one of the worst periods in many years, so I am all too aware of my deep regrets for not caring for myself back then. Now, it is aggravated by any repetitive use and certainly by computer use-- hence the voice dictation software most people know I use. It was absolutely initially caused by barista work, though.<br />
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I'm sure this sounds dramatic; it is. I am probably a worst-case scenario, but nonetheless, I exist. Please consider a complete break temporarily until you recover and then implement care activities at the bar. Barista elbow is not the resu…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-06-17:1688216:Comment:5264592009-06-17T16:35:36.212ZSandy Honhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/SandyHon
Barista elbow is not the result of *just* improper tamping. When i had it at its worst, we were using a swift grinder.<br />
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Don't get me wrong, improper technique is definately a contributing factor, as is the height of the counter top (which was a huge contributor to my issue) and over extending (locking) the arm when lifting items off the bar- such as airpots of coffee, for instance.<br />
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how you hold your tamper can indeed cause long term pain as well. When applying pressure with a tamper- grasp the…
Barista elbow is not the result of *just* improper tamping. When i had it at its worst, we were using a swift grinder.<br />
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Don't get me wrong, improper technique is definately a contributing factor, as is the height of the counter top (which was a huge contributor to my issue) and over extending (locking) the arm when lifting items off the bar- such as airpots of coffee, for instance.<br />
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how you hold your tamper can indeed cause long term pain as well. When applying pressure with a tamper- grasp the tamper as you would a doorknob. do not bend your wrist when tamping and remember: elbow up.<br />
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also, pay attention to *how* you are pulling the doser lever when dosing coffee. Do you pull the lever towards you with your fingers or hand allowing your wrist to bend with every pull? if so, a better technique would be to use your "whole arm" when pulling the dosing lever- use your hand or fingers and move the lever straight back - in line with your elbow. only your elbow (or whole arm) should move front to back and not your wrist. Looks like some good thoughts…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-06-17:1688216:Comment:5262382009-06-17T13:05:20.006ZBradyhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/Brady
Looks like some good thoughts here already. I've not suffered too badly from "barista elbow" yet, though some days it does feel a little overused.<br />
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I recall a discussion on here several months ago where someone had begun using one of those lever tampers (the big freestanding kind) to help him work through a problem like you are describing. Went looking for it but couldn't find it. You might try that, in addition to everything else previously discussed.<br />
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This really does speak to the importance…
Looks like some good thoughts here already. I've not suffered too badly from "barista elbow" yet, though some days it does feel a little overused.<br />
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I recall a discussion on here several months ago where someone had begun using one of those lever tampers (the big freestanding kind) to help him work through a problem like you are describing. Went looking for it but couldn't find it. You might try that, in addition to everything else previously discussed.<br />
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This really does speak to the importance of making sure we all develop body-friendly work habits. We should all spend a little time when its slow or towards the end of a long day paying close attention to the little motions that we do and how we feel when we do them. Is anything painful or awkward? How tall is your tamping surface? Your espresso machine? How often are you thwacking the doser lever? How hard do you bang out the puck? There are lots of ways to adapt your work methods or environment to reduce the impact on our bodies... and we have a great resource here in the people that have spent several years doing this every day.<br />
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Good luck Mitch, I hope you find a way to improve your "barista elbow".