I'm not a card-carrying member - Barista Exchange2024-03-29T15:14:54Zhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/1688216:Topic:58258?groupUrl=baristaguildofamerica&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A696413&groupId=1688216%3AGroup%3A58068&feed=yes&xn_auth=noAs an example, though, I'd li…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-11-27:1688216:Comment:6988272009-11-27T23:06:04.215ZChrishttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/Chris60
As an example, though, I'd like to point out that the BGA website is where I'd suspect that I should look for the schedule and information on regional events and competitions, as well as how and where one might go to become a certified barista. Either I'm really bad at finding that information, or they're not that great at presenting it.<br />
OTOH, I just heard that we have a new regional rep in the SW, and I have much personal respect for the man.*<br />
Things can only go up form here...<br />
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*Not that I…
As an example, though, I'd like to point out that the BGA website is where I'd suspect that I should look for the schedule and information on regional events and competitions, as well as how and where one might go to become a certified barista. Either I'm really bad at finding that information, or they're not that great at presenting it.<br />
OTOH, I just heard that we have a new regional rep in the SW, and I have much personal respect for the man.*<br />
Things can only go up form here...<br />
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*Not that I don't have respect for the rest of the folk out there shouldering the yoke! First off, the Barista Guild…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-11-24:1688216:Comment:6964132009-11-24T20:31:01.410ZChrishttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/Chris60
<blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/1688216:Topic:58258?groupUrl=baristaguildofamerica&id=1688216%3ATopic%3A58258&groupId=1688216%3AGroup%3A58068&page=4#1688216Comment652157"><div><div>First off, the Barista Guild of America is just that, a Guild, not a union. A guild is an association of craftsmen in a particular trade dedicated to the protection and advancement of their craft. A union is an organization of employees formed to bargain with the employer for…</div>
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<blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/1688216:Topic:58258?groupUrl=baristaguildofamerica&id=1688216%3ATopic%3A58258&groupId=1688216%3AGroup%3A58068&page=4#1688216Comment652157"><div><div>First off, the Barista Guild of America is just that, a Guild, not a union. A guild is an association of craftsmen in a particular trade dedicated to the protection and advancement of their craft. A union is an organization of employees formed to bargain with the employer for improved working conditions, wages, etc. So the analogy starts to fall apart from there. Secondly, that statement comes off as a little arrogant. Are you suggesting that your barista skills are so high tiered that the BGA should pay you? The BGA is an all volunteer run organization, and if a two time USBC Champion isn't making money on it and you think you should be, I'd like to taste your espresso, sir.</div>
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Firstly, it was a simile. Guilds and unions share quite a lot, as one begat the other. I never suggested that they should operate the seam way, but that they came at me with the same approach. One that confused me.<br />
Secondly, suggesting that my skills were such that the BGA should pay me wasn't what I'd hoped you'd take away form that story. What I'd hoped that you would garner from it was that we all want to know what the $45 is for. Just like anyone else that you ask for money from.<br />
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<blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/1688216:Topic:58258?groupUrl=baristaguildofamerica&id=1688216%3ATopic%3A58258&groupId=1688216%3AGroup%3A58068&page=4#1688216Comment652157"><div><div>"Just like anything else in life, folks want to see what it is that they're getting for their money, their participation, their input and their time."</div>
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And the BGA is no different, including the "input and time" aspect. A guild is only what the MEMBERSHIP of the guild makes it.<br />
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If we're to do all the work, what's the money for? It's no longer for certification...<br />
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Alright Francis, settle down.<br />
Quite a bit of the things that I suggested (some say 'harped') about have been addressed, and oddly enough, lots of them in just the manner that I would have hoped that they would be. There have been huge and sweeping changes since I adopted the position that prompted that post. Good on the BGA, and it's present leaders for that.<br />
I'm a consumer as much as anyone else. If I want to go somewhere and get a great coffee, I'd love to be able to look up the membership, see who is certified as what and working where in my town, or whatever town I'm working in or visiting. The BGA would be the perfect place for that. And, if it happened, and was publicised, the coffee drinking public would flock to it.<br />
To make that work, however, every barista listed would *absolutely have* to be qualified for that certification. If I look up a BGA certified barista, and go to his shop and find him pulling Costco beans in a fifteen second four ounce doppio, I'm not blaming him, I'm blaming the certification process. And the certifying authority. That's just human nature.<br />
OTOH, if I look on the BGA site to find my barista, and every time I go where they send me, I find what they say I'll find, that's my new reference material. And there is no way that that is anything but good for the rest of the certified baristi. And at that point, it is up to the certifying authority to weed out the unqualified, and promote the certified. It is the responsibility of those that are certified to keep up their training and skill set. It's simple self-promotion and self-preservation for the 'baristi in the streets' to do so.<br />
And if you prefer the term 'guild' to 'union hall' you should really go look at what a guild is. Guilds have traditionally been the holders of standards and trade secrets, trade skills, and training new associates and apprentices. Guilds have always (and this may be where I went awry, supposing that by calling it a guild it would perform as a guild) been about setting a standard, and *not allowing anyone that hadn't shown that they possess the requisite skill set to practice an art*. Seeing that kid that pushed the button on the super in possession of a guild certification was what made me feel that they were worthless back then. Guilds have always been very serious about who got recognition as an Apprentice, never allowed to work without supervision of one of the Masters; a Journeymen (one who had been trained fully by one Master, and encouraged to go out and 'journey' to other Masters so that their skill set wouldn't be inbred; and a Master, or one who had been trained fully and exposed to many different techniques and styles, able to choose an appropriate solution for any task or challenge.<br />
Masters had an obligation to teach, to protect their craft, and to make themselves available, as those Master before them had taught them.<br />
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I'm beginning to see the beginnings to that in the present BGA. I am probably one of the newe…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-10-15:1688216:Comment:6564392009-10-15T02:39:43.804ZPaul Yateshttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/PaulYates
I am probably one of the newest members of the BGA, and I consider myself the least skilled, as I have never worked behind an espresso machine in my life. For the first time a few weeks ago, I pulled my first shot on a decent machine, and poured my first latte....it was uuuugly. I love coffee. I love preparing a french press and blowing someone's mind with the flavor. I desperately want to learn all I can about coffee preparation, so that I can offer my customers a phenomenal experience. I can…
I am probably one of the newest members of the BGA, and I consider myself the least skilled, as I have never worked behind an espresso machine in my life. For the first time a few weeks ago, I pulled my first shot on a decent machine, and poured my first latte....it was uuuugly. I love coffee. I love preparing a french press and blowing someone's mind with the flavor. I desperately want to learn all I can about coffee preparation, so that I can offer my customers a phenomenal experience. I can read all kinds of books, but qualified, hands-on training is the only way I will truly understand how to make these products. (I mean, would you understand what "blonding" was without seeing it happen?) I understand the concern of some, who question the fact that someone like me can sign up, pay my dues, and get a membership card, and have pulled only one shot. But that's just membership. Certification requires I invest my hard-earned dollars, my intellect, and my passion about coffee in taking classes and meeting certain standards so I can achieve a higher level of proficiency. Does this have value to me? Bet your bottom dollar, it does! BGA membership enables me to have tools available to prepare me for taking the step to becoming certified, both in resources and in valuable discounts. Sure, it will take me years to get certified and gain the experience represented by those in this discussion currently, and I am in awe of your collective knowledge. So if you're looking for a "reason" to join the BGA, and you are concerned about the quality of the industry, remember that there are a bunch of us untrained, unprepared, caffeine-stoked barista wannabes who need some firm, knowledgeable mentoring. I mean, the last thing I want to do is cheapen your, and my, job description by being that BGA member who is serving dishwater-thin espresso! Word to everything Brady just…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-10-15:1688216:Comment:6564192009-10-15T02:04:51.556ZJason Dominyhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/jdominy
Word to everything Brady just said. Word up.
Word to everything Brady just said. Word up. This has been an interesting…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-10-15:1688216:Comment:6564132009-10-15T02:02:14.424ZBradyhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/Brady
This has been an interesting discussion. As a newer Chapter Rep, I've personally found these questions valuable - they've pointed to the things that should be priorities: I should do what I can to help bring more value to membership.<br />
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If you look at the variety of responses here, its clear that there are several points of view. I think the heart of the question has two parts:<br />
What IS the BGA doing for its membership? and<br />
What CAN the BGA do for its membership?<br />
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I hope it is pretty clear from…
This has been an interesting discussion. As a newer Chapter Rep, I've personally found these questions valuable - they've pointed to the things that should be priorities: I should do what I can to help bring more value to membership.<br />
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If you look at the variety of responses here, its clear that there are several points of view. I think the heart of the question has two parts:<br />
What IS the BGA doing for its membership? and<br />
What CAN the BGA do for its membership?<br />
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I hope it is pretty clear from the prior posts that the main focus of the EC at this point is Certification. All resources are focused on rolling out Level 1 and completing the work on Levels 2 and 3. I think this focus makes sense, because it is something that the BGA CAN do for its members, it is something that many members have asked the BGA to do, and it matches up well with the goals of the organization.<br />
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So lets look at what has been created here...<br />
A quality training program to educate members and build competency.<br />
Hands-on and written tests to verify that the skills are actually present.<br />
A small-but-growing pool of certified trainers and examiners, to deliver both of the above.<br />
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This, in my mind, is the sort of thing that a national organization of volunteers can be expected to create. Good job, EC.<br />
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What the EC can't do is wave their hands and make BGA Certification mean something to its members. They would if they could, but they really can't. This, to me, is where the membership comes in. I'm going to say what some of the posters before me said in a slightly different way...<br />
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If you want BGA membership to say something about your skills as a barista, get behind certification and make it mean something.<br />
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If you are a working barista, get certified. If you are a shop owner, send your people to be certified. If you are a community organizer, contact your Chapter Rep and ask how you can offer classes in your area. If you are a trainer, ask about future opportunities to become SCAA-certified. If you have a training center, ask about future opportunities to become a test administrator.<br />
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Clearly, this program is going to take a little time to roll out. The important thing to recognize is that the thing has started moving. However, I think it is at a critical point right now - it needs the support of the membership TODAY to get off the ground. If we work together to make it work we'll all benefit from it down the road.<br />
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I hope this helps. Ya know, I think you're right…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-10-15:1688216:Comment:6563782009-10-15T01:01:00.276ZMike McGinnesshttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/miKemcKoffeeakaMikeMcGinness
Ya know, I think you're right. When I renewed earlier this year don't recall getting a new "certificate" in addition to new membership card. My bad and apologies.<br />
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Hey, maybe those old "certificates" will become collectors items and we'll all clean up on eBay!<br />
(I won't hold my breath:-)<br />
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<cite>Brady said:…</cite>
Ya know, I think you're right. When I renewed earlier this year don't recall getting a new "certificate" in addition to new membership card. My bad and apologies.<br />
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Hey, maybe those old "certificates" will become collectors items and we'll all clean up on eBay!<br />
(I won't hold my breath:-)<br />
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<cite>Brady said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/1688216:Topic:58258?groupUrl=baristaguildofamerica&page=5&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A656361&x=1#1688216Comment656361"><div><cite>miKe mcKoffee aka Mike McGinness said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/1688216:Topic:58258?groupUrl=baristaguildofamerica&id=1688216%3ATopic%3A58258&groupId=1688216%3AGroup%3A58068&page=4#1688216Comment655137"><div>Call it what you will, certificate or whatever, but you <b>do get</b> a suitable for framing <i>Barista Guild Member In Good Standing</i> certificate or diploma or award <b>looking</b> thingy which states <b><i>"In recognition for your commitment and dedication to the Barista Guild of America and the craft of preparing quality coffee".</i></b><br/></div>
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<br/>I don't think that's true any more. I got a laminated card with my number on it.</div>
</blockquote> miKe mcKoffee aka Mike McGinn…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-10-15:1688216:Comment:6563612009-10-15T00:34:31.418ZBradyhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/Brady
<cite>miKe mcKoffee aka Mike McGinness said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/1688216:Topic:58258?groupUrl=baristaguildofamerica&id=1688216%3ATopic%3A58258&groupId=1688216%3AGroup%3A58068&page=4#1688216Comment655137"><div>Call it what you will, certificate or whatever, but you <b>do get</b> a suitable for framing <i>Barista Guild Member In Good Standing</i> certificate or diploma or award <b>looking</b> thingy which states <b><i>"In recognition for…</i></b></div>
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<cite>miKe mcKoffee aka Mike McGinness said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/1688216:Topic:58258?groupUrl=baristaguildofamerica&id=1688216%3ATopic%3A58258&groupId=1688216%3AGroup%3A58068&page=4#1688216Comment655137"><div>Call it what you will, certificate or whatever, but you <b>do get</b> a suitable for framing <i>Barista Guild Member In Good Standing</i> certificate or diploma or award <b>looking</b> thingy which states <b><i>"In recognition for your commitment and dedication to the Barista Guild of America and the craft of preparing quality coffee".</i></b><br/></div>
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I don't think that's true any more. I got a laminated card with my number on it. Call it what you will, certif…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-10-13:1688216:Comment:6551372009-10-13T21:19:26.119ZMike McGinnesshttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/miKemcKoffeeakaMikeMcGinness
Call it what you will, certificate or whatever, but you <b>do get</b> a suitable for framing <i>Barista Guild Member In Good Standing</i> certificate or diploma or award <b>looking</b> thingy which states <b><i>"In recognition for your commitment and dedication to the Barista Guild of America and the craft of preparing quality coffee".</i></b><br />
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Get recognized for "preparing quality coffee" with zero testing or tasting involved, simply paying up. THAT was the focus of my point...<br />
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And don't get…
Call it what you will, certificate or whatever, but you <b>do get</b> a suitable for framing <i>Barista Guild Member In Good Standing</i> certificate or diploma or award <b>looking</b> thingy which states <b><i>"In recognition for your commitment and dedication to the Barista Guild of America and the craft of preparing quality coffee".</i></b><br />
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Get recognized for "preparing quality coffee" with zero testing or tasting involved, simply paying up. THAT was the focus of my point...<br />
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And don't get me wrong, I'm NOT knocking the BGA or the work being done and improvements being made... Wow, not sure where to start,…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-10-13:1688216:Comment:6547972009-10-13T16:13:22.508ZJason Dominyhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/jdominy
Wow, not sure where to start, but I will try. Let me clarify a few things. One is, NO ONE comes and "plops down $45 and gets a certificate." It is obvious in several of these posts that some of you have not really delved into the certification process, and that's cool. It's new. But, before you get all worked up about it, read about it. Level one is the only level where one could "test out" after completing only one of the prerequisite classes. And for the record, in Atlanta, more than 50%…
Wow, not sure where to start, but I will try. Let me clarify a few things. One is, NO ONE comes and "plops down $45 and gets a certificate." It is obvious in several of these posts that some of you have not really delved into the certification process, and that's cool. It's new. But, before you get all worked up about it, read about it. Level one is the only level where one could "test out" after completing only one of the prerequisite classes. And for the record, in Atlanta, more than 50% didn't pass the exam, and will have to retake it. A certification is only as good as how it's measured, and we feel like the exam adequately assesses that if someone is able to pass the exam, they would have the skills and knowledge on a Level One level. After Level One, all prerequisite classes will have to be taken before taking the exam.<br />
Your points are also valid, that currently this certification doesn't hold alot of weight. It's a new program all around. Our goal is that people, owners, baristas, would see the value, and the value of the certification would speak for itself. That people could expect that if a shop was loaded with Level One certified baristas, we could expect a good SCAA standard shot of espresso out of a shop. We are paying customers, too, and I would love to have a way to judge whether my money is well spent or not, too. So does it have that value now, very much like you would look for an ASE Certified mechanic? No, not yet, again, it's new, but it has to start somewhere. I can tell you there are people genuinely committed to the purpose of the certification, and how much it will benefit shops and customers all over the country. The barista will take better pride in what they do, be more skilled, hopefully be able to earn more pay, the customer will have more trust in the barista, and have expectations that can be fulfilled.<br />
I think to Mike's point, though, yes, any barista can join the BGA. We are working hard to make this part of community as accessible to all. Yes, $45 will get you a card, multiple discounts people forget about like discounts on all SCAA or BGA classes, free BGA certification exams, members-only events, a larger voice in what's going on by being a part of an organized force of baristas, but what it won't do is make you a better barista. That is something you have to do yourself. The Barista Guild can afford you lots of opportunities, jams, workshops, etc. but you have to let your passion drive you to get better. The Barista Guild will support you, give you a dedicated person in your region who will support you in events you want to participate in or host. The Barista Guild will continue to fight for the barista in every venue, but you have to remember that you get out of things what you are willing to put into them.<br />
So, I recommend people take a look at the certification. Take a look at the current benefits for BGA members. Take a look at the events the BGA is sponsoring like the upcoming Southeast Regional Jam, the Barista Camp next year, the value is there already. It will continue to grow in value, and we are working hard constantly to pour more value into the BGA, but again, the value is there. We are committed to making the BGA everything you want it to be, but as it is a guild, a fellowship of sorts, we will need your help. For those that say it's not what I want, what do you want it to do for you? What are you willing to do to help?<br />
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<cite>Chris said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/1688216:Topic:58258?groupUrl=baristaguildofamerica&page=4&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A654771&x=1#1688216Comment652157"><div><cite>Dan Streetman said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/1688216:Topic:58258?groupUrl=baristaguildofamerica&id=1688216%3ATopic%3A58258&groupId=1688216%3AGroup%3A58068&page=4#1688216Comment650344"><div>I have a gym membership but I haven't been in two months, and I am still trying to lose the same 20 lbs that I was in January. Is that the gym's fault?.....<br/> <br/> Just like joining the gym gives me access to facilities, equipment, and knowledge, being a part of the BGA gives me access to some of the best, most knowledgeable and helpful baristas in specialty coffee.<br/>
...where the rubber meets the road is that the BGA needs more manpower and more resources to accomplish all of the things that everyone complains we don't do, or that we should be doing.<br/></div>
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Well, the gym has real facilities near your house, and a lot of really shiny kit, and staff that maintains that kit, and cleans it, and... the analogy starts to fall apart. Comparing the BGA and the gym really isn't analogous, nor helpful in illustrating what the BGA is or isn't.<br/>
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I had the same issue with the local union here. they kept telling me that they wanted me to join because the needed me. If I've all the skills and nouse that they really need, why are they asking me to pay *them*?<br/>
Just like anything else in life, folks want to see what it is that they're getting for their money, their participation, their input and their time. I'm hearing what a great thing that it is for the BGA, and for the coffee community, and a whole lotta vague hoo-rah about how the coffee community benefits, but not much concrete, although, the classes are a real exception. Any real training that could be had is beneficial. I dare say that Jason Haeger could teach quite a few, and that there may not be too much that one could teach that guy about coffee unless one were pretty damned educated on the subject. He's taught me quite a bit.<br/>
I've been harping about certification and standardization for about four years now, and yeah, I know that there are a lot of you that are tired of it. But the truth of the matter is, that if it were started four years ago, right this very minute, someone would be looking in a yellow pages, on Google, or on some smart-phone app, for a coffee shop that bore the BGA seal of approval, or advertised BGA certified baristi. Because there are quite a few folks that need some way to separate the wheat from the chaff. Now, the kid down the street that operates the Super-Auto at the coffee drive-thru (the one that puts out a twelve second, no crema, white foam, boiling hot dishwater thin, doppio of about three and a half ounces) has a BGA certificate over his station.<br/>
The question that we're asking here, is, why is it that you think that we want to be giving up our hard-earned cash every year simply to be equated with that kid?<br/>
Make the certification mean something. Make it valuable to the coffee-buying and coffee drinking public, and we'll value it.<br/>
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It's about respect, and trust. Both things that must be earned. Both things that, given blindly, aren't worth spit.<br/>
You want our respect, and you want our membership, show us that it's worth it.<br/>
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Standards, my favorite harp. Without them, there is no certification that will be able to be quantified in any meaningful way.<br/>
Again, if the certificate means nothing more than you're eager, and you used to have $45, well, that's all it means. Show us one that means that knowledgeable people have measured your skill and talent, and found it at very least acceptable, and let them get used to the idea that every time they see that logo in a shop that they get superior coffee, and you'll be beating baristi off with a stick.</div>
</blockquote> I'm not Mike, but I'm looking…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2009-10-13:1688216:Comment:6547712009-10-13T15:49:17.079ZJason Haegerhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/JasonHaeger
I'm not Mike, but I'm looking forward to it. I'm not "anti-BGA", or I wouldn't be a member. That having been said, there has to be something about it that would make people want to join. Adding value is exactly what's needed. Sometimes the fire needs another log.<br />
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<cite>Dan Streetman said:…</cite>
I'm not Mike, but I'm looking forward to it. I'm not "anti-BGA", or I wouldn't be a member. That having been said, there has to be something about it that would make people want to join. Adding value is exactly what's needed. Sometimes the fire needs another log.<br />
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<cite>Dan Streetman said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/1688216:Topic:58258?groupUrl=baristaguildofamerica&page=4&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A654762&x=1#1688216Comment654762"><div>Mike,<br/> <br/>
thanks for your response. Everyone has a value equation for whether or not spending money makes sense. The BGA EC understands that and it is why they continue to work hard to add value. I think as the Certification program continues to roll out you will be pleasantly surprised and excited to see how it has been implemented.</div>
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