14 Gram Baskets: Fact or Fiction? - Barista Exchange2024-03-28T14:56:31Zhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/14-gram-baskets-fact-or?commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A889041&feed=yes&xn_auth=no Temperature and pressure thr…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2018-12-05:1688216:Comment:16457082018-12-05T03:57:49.055ZMike Clarkhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/MikeClark
<p> Temperature and pressure through the group head are the only consistencies that can be monitored and kept in adjustment. The grind will need adjusting several times throughout any given day which throws all the dosing theories out the window and all the variables become a moot point. Keeping it simple and tasting good usually can be accredited to a simple phone call or text from the roaster who has done all the homework for you. Always start with a good water source. Never become complacent…</p>
<p> Temperature and pressure through the group head are the only consistencies that can be monitored and kept in adjustment. The grind will need adjusting several times throughout any given day which throws all the dosing theories out the window and all the variables become a moot point. Keeping it simple and tasting good usually can be accredited to a simple phone call or text from the roaster who has done all the homework for you. Always start with a good water source. Never become complacent with your grinder and machine maintenance and adjustments. You will only be as good as your equipment . Time those shots !</p> There are a lot of factors th…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-07-25:1688216:Comment:8901052010-07-25T15:06:13.524ZJason Haegerhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/JasonHaeger
There are a lot of factors that go into espresso production. Changing the shape of the basket, and the volume of the "brew chamber" (contingent on equipment) can have a huge impact on the result in the cup.<br />
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It's part of what makes it so fun. :)<br />
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<cite>Terika said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/14-gram-baskets-fact-or?commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A889999&xg_source=msg_com_forum#1688216Comment889999"><div>That makes perfect sense. I knew there would be…</div>
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There are a lot of factors that go into espresso production. Changing the shape of the basket, and the volume of the "brew chamber" (contingent on equipment) can have a huge impact on the result in the cup.<br />
<br />
It's part of what makes it so fun. :)<br />
<br />
<cite>Terika said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/14-gram-baskets-fact-or?commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A889999&xg_source=msg_com_forum#1688216Comment889999"><div>That makes perfect sense. I knew there would be exceptions, I just haven't had personal experiences with discovering them for myself. I would like to add that equipment can play a huge factor as well. (I know that you're probably 'duh' at this point, but hear me out.) With our last espresso machine we had to use triple baskets in order to achieve what we wanted out of our espresso. When we switched to our present machine, we went back to double baskets and it is still phenomenal. It just amazed me that changing equipment could accomplish the same desired result, but with using only 2/3rds of the espresso.<br/> <br/>
<cite>Jason Haeger said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/14-gram-baskets-fact-or#1688216Comment889677"><div>Its was sort of a leading question that Chris followed up on, so I never did.<br/> <br/> Some coffees need to be more honestly expressed with a lower dose. Some coffees don't have as much to express and require a higher dose to be satisfying.<br/>
<br/>
Also, different people "expect" different things out of espresso. I am in the camp that doesn't believe in the notion of pre-defined espresso flavor profiles. It should taste like the coffee that was used to make it, and nothing else. It's just a brew method like any other. But that's just my take.<br/>
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</blockquote> That makes perfect sense. I k…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-07-25:1688216:Comment:8899992010-07-25T04:06:47.613ZTerikahttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/Terika
That makes perfect sense. I knew there would be exceptions, I just haven't had personal experiences with discovering them for myself. I would like to add that equipment can play a huge factor as well. (I know that you're probably 'duh' at this point, but hear me out.) With our last espresso machine we had to use triple baskets in order to achieve what we wanted out of our espresso. When we switched to our present machine, we went back to double baskets and it is still phenomenal. It just amazed…
That makes perfect sense. I knew there would be exceptions, I just haven't had personal experiences with discovering them for myself. I would like to add that equipment can play a huge factor as well. (I know that you're probably 'duh' at this point, but hear me out.) With our last espresso machine we had to use triple baskets in order to achieve what we wanted out of our espresso. When we switched to our present machine, we went back to double baskets and it is still phenomenal. It just amazed me that changing equipment could accomplish the same desired result, but with using only 2/3rds of the espresso.<br />
<br />
<cite>Jason Haeger said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/14-gram-baskets-fact-or#1688216Comment889677"><div>Its was sort of a leading question that Chris followed up on, so I never did.<br/> <br/>
Some coffees need to be more honestly expressed with a lower dose. Some coffees don't have as much to express and require a higher dose to be satisfying.<br/>
<br/>
Also, different people "expect" different things out of espresso. I am in the camp that doesn't believe in the notion of pre-defined espresso flavor profiles. It should taste like the coffee that was used to make it, and nothing else. It's just a brew method like any other. But that's just my take.<br/>
<br/></div>
</blockquote> Amen.
Chris said:If it were…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-07-24:1688216:Comment:8898022010-07-24T20:04:20.016ZAdam Wilsonhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/AdamWilson
Amen.<br />
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<cite>Chris said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/14-gram-baskets-fact-or?page=1&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A889790&x=1#1688216Comment889790"><div>If it were that simple, super-autos would simply rock.</div>
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Amen.<br />
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<cite>Chris said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/14-gram-baskets-fact-or?page=1&commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A889790&x=1#1688216Comment889790"><div>If it were that simple, super-autos would simply rock.</div>
</blockquote> Jason Haeger said:different p…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-07-24:1688216:Comment:8897902010-07-24T19:47:22.180ZChrishttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/Chris60
<cite>Jason Haeger said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/14-gram-baskets-fact-or?commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A889316&xg_source=activity#1688216Comment889677"><div>different people "expect" different things out of espresso. I am in the camp that doesn't believe in the notion of pre-defined espresso flavor profiles.</div>
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I've become happier now that I've given up on the 'perfect' espresso. I'm now in the habit of pursuing whatever beans I…
<cite>Jason Haeger said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/14-gram-baskets-fact-or?commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A889316&xg_source=activity#1688216Comment889677"><div>different people "expect" different things out of espresso. I am in the camp that doesn't believe in the notion of pre-defined espresso flavor profiles.</div>
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I've become happier now that I've given up on the 'perfect' espresso. I'm now in the habit of pursuing whatever beans I can grab, and seeing what they have to offer. It was absolutely frustrating to try to get whatever I could get my hands on to try to taste like 'that espresso I had at Barefoot while driving through Santa Cruz three years ago' or 'that shot that that great barista at Murky pulled me in DC, back when there was a Murky in DC'. The closest thing I do to that is try to find the best shot in a pound of beans.<br />
I start by dosing twenty grams, grinding and leveling that, and weighing the result. Then I continually adjust grind that weight until I get within thirty seconds, working my way from where it starts (where the last bean ended, which is usually a bit tight, as they tend to be ten to fourteen days old when I get done with them) futzing around with grind and dose around that pull time, and finally working my way toward restretti. Around halfway through the bag, I usually find what I like from that particular bean or blend, and will probably stay in that comfort zone til I find another bean to pay with.<br />
Since the blend and roast that is being supplied for most decent specialty coffee espresso blends is going to be dependent on just how much of that particular green the roaster has on hand form <i>*this year's*</i> crop, and how good he is at matching blends and roasts form one batch to another, deciding that one particular mathematical approach to anything beyond a five pound bag might be folly.<br />
If it were that simple, super-autos would simply rock. Its was sort of a leading que…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-07-24:1688216:Comment:8896772010-07-24T15:47:21.365ZJason Haegerhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/JasonHaeger
Its was sort of a leading question that Chris followed up on, so I never did.<br />
<br />
Some coffees need to be more honestly expressed with a lower dose. Some coffees don't have as much to express and require a higher dose to be satisfying.<br />
<br />
Also, different people "expect" different things out of espresso. I am in the camp that doesn't believe in the notion of pre-defined espresso flavor profiles. It should taste like the coffee that was used to make it, and nothing else. It's just a brew method like…
Its was sort of a leading question that Chris followed up on, so I never did.<br />
<br />
Some coffees need to be more honestly expressed with a lower dose. Some coffees don't have as much to express and require a higher dose to be satisfying.<br />
<br />
Also, different people "expect" different things out of espresso. I am in the camp that doesn't believe in the notion of pre-defined espresso flavor profiles. It should taste like the coffee that was used to make it, and nothing else. It's just a brew method like any other. But that's just my take.<br />
<br />
<cite>Terika said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/14-gram-baskets-fact-or?commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A889672&xg_source=msg_com_forum#1688216Comment889672"><div>In my experience soggy pucks means that you do not have enough espresso in the basket. The more espresso in there, the fuller the flavor. I'm sure there are exceptions, but that is just what I have experienced.<br/> <br/>
<cite>Jason Haeger said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/14-gram-baskets-fact-or#1688216Comment889115"><div>More to extract means more time before blonding. That's more shot volume, but I'm not certain that it's necessarily better.<br/><br/>Also, what's wrong with soggy pucks?</div>
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</blockquote> In my experience soggy pucks…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-07-24:1688216:Comment:8896722010-07-24T15:42:45.398ZTerikahttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/Terika
In my experience soggy pucks means that you do not have enough espresso in the basket. The more espresso in there, the fuller the flavor. I'm sure there are exceptions, but that is just what I have experienced.<br />
<br />
<cite>Jason Haeger said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/14-gram-baskets-fact-or#1688216Comment889115"><div>More to extract means more time before blonding. That's more shot volume, but I'm not certain that it's necessarily better.<br></br><br></br>Also,…</div>
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In my experience soggy pucks means that you do not have enough espresso in the basket. The more espresso in there, the fuller the flavor. I'm sure there are exceptions, but that is just what I have experienced.<br />
<br />
<cite>Jason Haeger said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/14-gram-baskets-fact-or#1688216Comment889115"><div>More to extract means more time before blonding. That's more shot volume, but I'm not certain that it's necessarily better.<br/><br/>Also, what's wrong with soggy pucks?</div>
</blockquote> Jason Haeger said:
Also, what…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-07-23:1688216:Comment:8893162010-07-23T22:05:55.420ZChrishttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/Chris60
<cite>Jason Haeger said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/14-gram-baskets-fact-or?xg_source=activity#1688216Comment889115"><div><br></br> Also, what's wrong with soggy pucks?<br></br></div>
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They splatter when I throw them at people. Not like the lil brick -like ones that just shatter. ; ><br />
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I've discovered that up-dosed (I have a collection of ridge-less that cover 14, 16, 18, and 21 g) shots tend to be 'darker' and chocolaty-er, and a bit more…
<cite>Jason Haeger said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/14-gram-baskets-fact-or?xg_source=activity#1688216Comment889115"><div><br/>
Also, what's wrong with soggy pucks?<br/></div>
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They splatter when I throw them at people. Not like the lil brick -like ones that just shatter. ; ><br />
<br />
I've discovered that up-dosed (I have a collection of ridge-less that cover 14, 16, 18, and 21 g) shots tend to be 'darker' and chocolaty-er, and a bit more forgiving than down dosed. Down-dosing brings out more of the 'terrior' of the bean, and tends to be a bit brighter, more acid, and more complex. I've only recently started to understand what a lot of connoisseurs are referring to when they say nuts, berries, leather, tobacco, flowers, oranges, etc., because I'm so fond of the sweet, dark, rich chocolate bomb.<br />
I'd suggest experimenting. Keep the dose the same, and vary the grind to adjust pull times. Then try finer and finer grinds, varying dose along the way adjust pull times. Do it when it';s slow, with a few of the staff around, and taste the differences.<br />
Then start puling the ones that you really like! More to extract means more ti…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-07-23:1688216:Comment:8891152010-07-23T13:22:00.959ZJason Haegerhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/JasonHaeger
More to extract means more time before blonding. That's more shot volume, but I'm not certain that it's necessarily better.<br />
<br />
Also, what's wrong with soggy pucks?<br />
<br />
<cite>Dirk Maritz said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/14-gram-baskets-fact-or?commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A889041&xg_source=msg_com_forum#1688216Comment889041"><div>I found this cool equation. (brew time)x 1/ (dose x grind). Im not too sure if it is feasible or not but it shows the…</div>
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More to extract means more time before blonding. That's more shot volume, but I'm not certain that it's necessarily better.<br />
<br />
Also, what's wrong with soggy pucks?<br />
<br />
<cite>Dirk Maritz said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.baristaexchange.com/forum/topics/14-gram-baskets-fact-or?commentId=1688216%3AComment%3A889041&xg_source=msg_com_forum#1688216Comment889041"><div>I found this cool equation. (brew time)x 1/ (dose x grind). Im not too sure if it is feasible or not but it shows the relationship between grind and dose. The lower your dose, the finer your grind. Iv found that the more coffee you dose, the longer it takes for your shots to blonde. It also helps eliminate soggy pucks. I think up doseing creates a better tasting shot. But thats just me.</div>
</blockquote> I found this cool equation. (…tag:www.baristaexchange.com,2010-07-23:1688216:Comment:8890412010-07-23T08:08:22.196ZDirk Maritzhttps://www.baristaexchange.com/profile/DirkMaritz
I found this cool equation. (brew time)x 1/ (dose x grind). Im not too sure if it is feasible or not but it shows the relationship between grind and dose. The lower your dose, the finer your grind. Iv found that the more coffee you dose, the longer it takes for your shots to blonde. It also helps eliminate soggy pucks. I think up doseing creates a better tasting shot. But thats just me.
I found this cool equation. (brew time)x 1/ (dose x grind). Im not too sure if it is feasible or not but it shows the relationship between grind and dose. The lower your dose, the finer your grind. Iv found that the more coffee you dose, the longer it takes for your shots to blonde. It also helps eliminate soggy pucks. I think up doseing creates a better tasting shot. But thats just me.