The "Clover". Is it as good as they say??

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Permalink Reply by Anthony Rue on November 14, 2009 at 1:41pm

Yes, Starbucks now owns/makes the Clover. As for is it as good, well, it's only as good as the coffee you select and the approach of the shop/training/barista. You can make a sublime cup on it-- and with skill and practice you can work up a dose/grind/technique for each coffee that is very close to how the coffee cups. Or, you can slaughter a fine coffee and end up with underextracted sour tea or astringent aspirin water. In other words, it's no more of a leg up on producing a great coffee than a GB5 is for espresso: the tool has the potential, but there are a dozen ways to mess it up on the way to the cup. That said, this morning I used our Clover to brew up Ecco's Brazil Santa Terezinha coffee today and it was spectacular.

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Permalink Reply by Joseph Robertson on November 14, 2009 at 5:37pm

As a roaster I first tried the Clover at an Atlas open house presentation during a Seattle Coffee fest weekend a couple years ago. Coffee tasted good but like Anthony's post above, you can bet they knew what they were doing and, were not about to show off there beans/roasts with bad brews from the clover.
Like any machine it is only as good as the coffee you put into it, how well you maintain it and how good you are at using it. Much like making espresso with a top end machine.
Seems anything new has a lot of mystique surrounding it. I would own one if you gave it to me. But I got turned off by the fact that they sold out so soon to *$'s. Were they that desperate or just moving on to their next business venture?
--
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.

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Permalink Reply by Jay Caragay on November 14, 2009 at 6:17pm

Is the Clover as good as they say?

In a word: NO.

But do ask those cats up in Vancouver and elsewhere because they're ready to talk until they're blue in the face about how "awesome" it is.


Truth is, I respect Anthony Rue's words considerably as there's probably few people in this industry who has put as much time and effort into their coffee quality as Anthony and his crew at Volta. Most of the rest of the people touting the Clover as the ultimate brewer are just blowing hot air.

And Ecco's Terezinha is quite an excellent coffee. We're offering it this week as a vac pot.

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Permalink Reply by Matt on November 14, 2009 at 6:44pm

My cafe owns a Clover... and in my opinion yes, it's pretty fantastic. Completely changes the coffee, almost makes it smoother. It is very true though that it is only as good as the quality of beans you put in. The way I describe it to customers is that Starbucks using their beans to use in the clover, is like putting dirt in a Rolls Royce. If you get the chance to try one with good beans...do it, and compare with a normal brew.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Cannon on November 14, 2009 at 6:54pm

My experience with the machine was one of constant flux between wonder and dissapointment; when it worked it was beautiful but sometimes we'd experience overflow when brewing.

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Permalink Reply by Joseph Robertson on November 15, 2009 at 1:14pm

Funny, I think that is what they said at Atlas Coffee in Seattle when I tried it with them a few years ago. It was a bleeding edge gaget back then. Now if you what to know if you should invest in one there are plenty of coffee folk to question first.

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Permalink Reply by Brady on November 15, 2009 at 7:33pm

Perhaps a better question for you to ask is this one:

"Is the Clover dramatically better than other, more reasonably priced, brew devices - if they are used properly?"

I think not.

I also think the GB5 comparison is a good one. I would only add that the GB5 is not priced at 10x or more of the cost of its nearest rival like the Clover is.

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Permalink Reply by Logan Demmy on November 15, 2009 at 11:15pm

Brady hit the nail on the head. Assuming both the clover and challenging brew methods were in the hands of dedicated professionals then justifying the ten to one hundred times price increases becomes very difficult. That being said if a clover happens to walk into your arm for free or you have the opportunity to work in a shop that has one spring for it. It is a ton of fun to mess with different settings, creating some vastly different tasting cups with very little change. It is then easier to replicate these cups with vast precision even if all of your baristas are not vacuum pot professionals.

Brady said:

Perhaps a better question for you to ask is this one:
"Is the Clover dramatically better than other, more reasonably priced, brew devices - if they are used properly?"
I think not.

I also think the GB5 comparison is a good one. I would only add that the GB5 is not priced at 10x or more of the cost of its nearest rival like the Clover is.

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Permalink Reply by Anthony Rue on November 16, 2009 at 6:46am

We opened our shop a year ago with the decision to use the Clover as our primary means of producing of our brewed coffee. The Clover has more than paid for itself in a year-- anyone who argues that it is a waste of money or costs too much doesn't know what it can do for a shop-- if you use it correctly. As a business decision, it was spot on _for us_. We began to utilize different brew methods (Chemex and syphon) because I came to the realization that if we treat coffee as a true culinary ingredient, no one brew method is going to work for every kind of coffee. There are some coffees that we can make significantly better on the Clover, others that just refuse to work. I think you have to have an open mind and realize that the same is true for the Chemex or the syphon (or any other brew method): you need to approach each coffee individually and determine what brew method brings out what you want in the cup. I'd never want to work anywhere that was tied to just one way of brewing. But I can testify from experience that with a properly trained barista and a properly dialed-in coffee can produce a great cup, faster and with much more cup-to-cup consistency than pour-over and syphon methods.

That said, would I buy a used Clover now if I were starting up? Probably not, but only because I don't have faith that Starbucks is going to continue producing Clovers for its own use. The machines that have seen one or two years of heavy commercial use are going to need replacement parts before too long, and I wouldn't want to make the investment without being sure that parts will be available.

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Permalink Reply by Creme'cles Greek God o' Coffee on November 16, 2009 at 3:20pm

The Clover was originally conceived by the Clover company which got bought by Starbucks about three years ago. It is a solid machine if you can maintain it and find parts, I believe that Starbucks does deal in maintenance contracts. If you can keep up on them and calibrate them annually they are a great machine.

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Permalink Reply by will frith on November 24, 2009 at 9:59am

like any great machine, it has its quirks, its ups and downs, and infinite potential (in every regard - product, highlighting origin/roast, and not to mention the infinite cost of upkeep/repair, and a sizable investment at that).

one of my favorite things about it is how quiet it is. the gentle whir and hum of the piston in motion. the interface is really user-friendly, too. if you can operate your cell phone, this is a breeze.

the downside is that any coffee brewed through it tastes like it was brewed through a Clover, which could either be seen as good (distinct, unique) or bad (imparts a flavor, taints the coffee). I'd recommend bringing some of your favorite coffees to a place with a Clover and be really nice to the baristas/operators (share your coffee and enthusiasm for experimentation, and include them in the process if they're not too busy). Let your taste buds tell you what is good or not. compare it to the same coffees brewed in other ways, so you don't get suckered by process alone.

that said, choose off-peak hours to do this. I wouldn't hesitate to tell you "no" if you came in wanting to experiment during the 8am rush.

(Clover started in the Ballard area of Seattle, Washington)

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Permalink Reply by Joseph Robertson on November 24, 2009 at 11:05am

Will, next Seattle coffee fest I will bring my beans by if I get the chance.
Joe

will frith said:

like any great machine, it has its quirks, its ups and downs, and infinite potential (in every regard - product, highlighting origin/roast, and not to mention the infinite cost of upkeep/repair, and a sizable investment at that).

one of my favorite things about it is how quiet it is. the gentle whir and hum of the piston in motion. the interface is really user-friendly, too. if you can operate your cell phone, this is a breeze.

the downside is that any coffee brewed through it tastes like it was brewed through a Clover, which could either be seen as good (distinct, unique) or bad (imparts a flavor, taints the coffee). I'd recommend bringing some of your favorite coffees to a place with a Clover and be really nice to the baristas/operators (share your coffee and enthusiasm for experimentation, and include them in the process if they're not too busy). Let your taste buds tell you what is good or not. compare it to the same coffees brewed in other ways, so you don't get suckered by process alone.

that said, choose off-peak hours to do this. I wouldn't hesitate to tell you "no" if you came in wanting to experiment during the 8am rush.

(Clover started in the Ballard area of Seattle, Washington)

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