Hi

I'm in the business of importing Lavazza Capsules into Austraia. We have been succesfull, growing fast, and we know that Nespresso has been extremly succesfull. We think that capsules have some real advantages in particular curcumstances (Some disadvantages too)

I won't say much more because it may be considered spam but was interestedin some opinions from others out there

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Having spent a year in Australia working, I think the appreciation for good coffee is on a different level (certainly to the uk).

In my experience, customers would always return for a good coffee - even if it was out of their way in the morning before work. This was because they knew they would be unlikely to achieve a drink approximating what is possible in a coffee shop without huge outlay. I think the capsule idea is flawed in this respect. pre-ground coffee will never come close to fresh, fact. Where the capsules do succeed is speed and ease of use. but then - so does instant coffee.
Hi

There is a perception that pre ground is not as fresh as beans - Coffee is fresh after it is roasted after that it depends how you store it. So beans or ground coffee that are left open to the oxygen become stale. So capsules keep the coffee fresh because they are only exposed to air when they are pierced. Beans however can become stale unless they are used soon after the pack is opened - that is only if the bag has valve to emit the CO2. otherwise it starts detiorating straight away. The Lavazza capsules are made of a plastic that allows one way direction of air thus emiting Co2 without allowing oxygen to contact the coffee
My understanding is that (depending on treatment, bean variety, roast degree and intended use) bean coffee reaches its 'peak' anywhere between 5 and 21 days... before grinding. coffee I taste that is 'opened fresh' from a sealed bag a month or so after roasting shows similar characteristics to those that I have tried from the nespresso range. quick extraction, pale crema, stale taste. It's uncontrollable.

In an ideal world, roasted coffee would not be placed in sealed bags, as it would be used before the bad effects of oxygenation would start to show in the product. I argue that coffee loses some subtle flavours through the process of 'long term' sealed bagging, and does in fact produce a better product if stored in unsealed vessels and used within a shorter timeframe. Sealed bags are better for large scale production because it makes coffee much more stable and practical.

Ground coffee deteriorates faster than whole bean. It's not a case of it being less 'fresh' than beans, it's more a case of how much staler it will inevitably be.

In my mind, to argue that a pre-ground capsule espresso represents anything other than slight convenience and value over a shop bought, correctly produced espresso is just massively flawed.
While I'll give you that there are some situations where capsules have advantages... those situations are usually ones where you want coffee and aren't a barista (or don't want to hire one). Since this is a barista community, I'm not sure exactly what sort of opinions you are looking for?

I'll correct one of your statements... keeping oxygen away from coffee only prevents oxidation, it does not keep it fresh. The staling process involves a number of mechanisms, only one of which is oxidation. Are you suggesting that an encapsulated pre-ground coffee that was ground weeks (at best) ago will produce a cup that is as good as freshly ground at 4 days post roast? I think not.
The advantages and disadvantages of coffee capsules are directly analogous to microwave TV Dinners. Indeed there's a market for them, and I ain't it now or ever.
You may be on the wrong forum if you want any support or positive comments on coffee pods. As far as I'm concerned ( as a roaster and purveyor of speciality coffee ) Coffee Pods and Speciality Coffee are an oxymoron. As far as "real advantages in particular curcumstances" any real advantages would be offset by the fact that your trying to sell people on the idea that the pod system has something to do with freshness.
Just my 2 cents plus....
Joseph
--
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
What about the environmental impact of these thousand upon thousands of pods being produced!!!
What a waste all for the sake of connivence!

Not the direction we should be headed!!
& that my 0.0194 cents worth ( based on canadian dollar)

Cheers
hahaha!

"advantages"

hahaha!
I'm feeling a bit unloved however:
There advantages to consumers and the industry.
Two of the world's largest roast coffee producers think it is the future of coffee - So it's here to stay.
It is not meant to be used in coffee shops but at homes or work.
I think the coffee is pretty good especially compared to badly stored badly ground coffee most people drink at work or home.

I'm surprised that guys who put flavours in their coffee would think the coffee tastes bad - How would they know.

However anything introduces half decent coffee into the market is a plus. Starbucks got the Americans to move away from crap filterd coffee and their coffee is not great. Maybe when they get used to espresso instead of instant they may move up to the boutique stuff.

I await the howl of protest
Obviously most of the members of BX are baristi or roasters, so it perhaps is not suprising that the reactions posted to date do not come out in full support of the Lavazza capsule system. Being a Kiwi I wouild echo another posters comments about the state of the caffeine-nation in both Australia and NZ. The local roasters are generally very, very good and they have developed a cult following in most communities- we all know hopow this passiuon for local and freshly roasted coffee drove Starbucks pretty much from the Great Southern Land.

However, I am not totally blinkered to the place for capsule systems in the world of coffee. Nestle's Nespresso system now eclipses that companies tradditional instant sales- quite amazing. I think Nestle has learnt that success of their product is in the home use market. No matter what we say as proponents of roast and ground, many home users balk at 1/. the cost of a machine and grinder and 2/. the effort at actually firing the foresaid machine up to make a cappuccino etc. The low cost of the Nespresso machine and ALSO the low cost of the LAVAZZA home use capsule machines and pod machines make these systems more appealing to the average home user.

I would say when it comes to commerciaol, any cafe (at least in Australia or NZ) who wants to survive in the coffe savy culture which is the Antipodes, would be taking an enourmous risk to be selling capsule base coffee over the counter. Now- this is not a swipe at all at Lavazza which I know does well in Oz/NZ with wholebean sales to cafes,hotels, restaurants etc. The fact that they do well is perhaps testimony to the fact many of us are the soms or grandsons of European immigrants and were brought up on european type blends (if we were lucky- if not we were brought up on coffee essence and instants)

I remember the Trieste Espresso Show in 2006- a number of BX members attended. Illy had a HUGE drive with their at the time new Pod system. It was probably a mistake as 99% of attendees at the show are serious coffee proffessionals. I note that now while they push the pod system it is certainly targeted away from cafes and more to that very captive and I reckon very willing home market
I'm sure there's a market, it's a different market than what most people on this forum are chasing. Look at Green Mountain Coffee Roasters stock over the past year or so. They have had great success with the K-cup. Comparability with the right machine... Get into the right distribution channel and I'll bet there's a ton of money to be made.
True.

the reason for my first response was that my mind immediately jumps to making the best quality coffee possible, and therefore the pod system is eliminated.

If what you are looking for is only money, then surely you had better capitalize on the opportunities for such products to be marketed.

Jason Shipley said:
I'm sure there's a market, it's a different market than what most people on this forum are chasing. Look at Green Mountain Coffee Roasters stock over the past year or so. They have had great success with the K-cup. Comparability with the right machine... Get into the right distribution channel and I'll bet there's a ton of money to be made.

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